There's something that bothers me about Clojure, and anything else that runs on top of the jvm and encourages heavy use of java libraries. It's similar to the t

There's something that bothers me about Clojure, and anything else that runs on top of the jvm and encourages heavy use of java libraries. It's similar to the thoughtful post in the "It's about the Libraries" thread regarding Clojure not being a completely coherent system because it is not a Lisp system. Same could be said for Scala. For one, if the libraries are what's important, then just keep on with java. For another, so what if we get to use all these features, like coherent concurrency and stm? It seems to me that the use of one shitball java library could negate any value that Clojure brings to the table. So is it really the case that while java library interop is fully realized with Clojure, and this is a major selling point, for mission critical software we should not use java libraries that haven't been thoroughly scrutinized? I believe it is the case that there are libraries that are acceptable for use with more java, but their use will be discouraged if Clojure is thrown into the mix. Clojure just hasn't been around long enough to have to deal with these issues yet. In a similar vein, this is something that has always bothered me about Ada. Why even have a version of Spark Ada that runs on windows, or any other OS that itself is not written in Spark Ada? I wonder if Wirth was at all driven by this issue, because he always seemed to include a machine as part of the language he was developing at the time. So is it the case that any advances to Lisp like Clojure require that we just accept these less coherent systems just to get some work done, even though it really would be preferable to have all the libraries you need on something like a Genera with concurrency and stm realized, even though we don't want to admit it? I'd like somebody to set me right on this point.