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Are we talking past each other here, or are you just imagining a disagreement here and continuing to press a completely unrelated point? You've said nothing ma

Are we talking past each other here, or are you just imagining a disagreement here and continuing to press a completely unrelated point? You've said nothing materially different from me on the point that I made. You are pinpointing and continuing to dispute an off-hand comment about rubber-stamping with drawing upon the establishment of precedent and its binding nature on other courts, and again, I wasn't saying anything about that issue at all. If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say you misunderstood the intent of my jab and are carrying forward an inconsistent comparison, cherry picking one minor detail to dispute the jab, and creating a bit of a straw man here that is completely pointless. Here, I will say it again: I was referring only to the fact that given their caseload and decisions, the CAFC often appears as a rubber stamp court for patent litigation. I was not speaking about establishing binding precedent [on any other courts]. Sheesh, friend. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

rayiner 13y ago
First, you did say something about the precedent issue, because you claimed in your second paragraph that the FISC was creating binding precedent that shaped the law in its area. That's true for the Fed. Cir., but not for FISC. Second, and this is more pointing out an implication of your point rather than a disagreement, FISC being a rubber stamp is much less of a problem than Fed. Cir. being a rubber stamp. FISC being a rubber stamp only affects warrant requests that come in front of FISC itself. Fed. Cir. being a rubber stamp has ripple effects throughout the entire court system because it creates precedent binding on every district court and appellate court in the country.
- bobwaycott 13y ago
  Are you just here for trolling? I've tried to be very polite, but we're getting nowhere because we're talking past each other (most charitable reading I have). My original statement, to which you replied with particulars about binding precedence, said absolutely zero about establishing precedents that bind other courts. Who cares if one court's rubber stamp affects a wider court radius than the others if they are both operating as rubber stamps for a particular kind of case and that is all that was being said? If you want to have an exchange and dispute whether or not the CAFC operates as a patent litigator's rubber stamp in much the same way that the FISC operates as a spy agency's rubber stamp, then please do so. If not, then by the universe, stop changing the subject to something that is not of primary concern when evaluating whether or not the CAFC is a rubber-stamp patent troll's court. We have nothing to discuss on the precedent issue because I sincerely do not disagree or care to dispute the ways in which the FISC "shaped law in its area", as it is not at all related to the current thread. [edit: removed strongly-worded-out-of-exasperation language. my apologies.]
  - rayiner 13y ago
    > My original statement, to which you replied with particulars about binding precedence, said absolutely zero about establishing precedents that bind other courts. Your original statement also said absolutely zero about rubber stamping. Your second statement had two paragraphs: one about rubber stamping, one about binding precedent. It's not "changing the subject" if I fail to read your mind about what the subject happens to be.
    - bobwaycott 13y ago
      If you fail to read my mind? Certainly not. If you fail to read my comment, in which I explicitly state, "Here is what I meant and my intention", and then continue to argue something on which we are not in disagreement? Absolutely. I made it ridiculously clear what my statement meant.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    All of the 'rayiner comments on this thread confine themselves to the ideas on the thread itself. It's your comments that assault the people writing the comments, first by inventing a motive their authorship, and now by calling the author a troll.
    - bobwaycott 13y ago
      I typically respect and appreciate your comments, so thanks for interjecting. I am not assaulting people writing comments. Of course, perhaps in your opinion using strong language equates with assaulting the eyes of the readers. I don't hold that view, but I'm happy to apologize if you've been offended. I have not invented motives for rayiner's authorship. I have repeatedly asked what rayiner's motivation is because I am trying to understand why we're talking past each other when we don't have material disagreement on the precedent issue (while repeatedly calling attention to the fact that is not what I was referring to). Just the other day, I read through a very lengthy exchange between you and other commenters doing the same thing--you asked a question that deserved answering, and everyone else changed the subject, diverted attention, attempted to get into your personal opinions and how that had fuck-all to do with your original question. You went what seemed like a dozen rounds continually asking people talking about different things why that had anything at all to do with what you were asking, and reiterating your question. I don't have the interest in going a dozen rounds with the same person to keep saying, "That is not what I was talking about. We do not disagree." I made a jab at the CAFC, and have now wasted several comment rounds on trying to repeatedly explain to the same person exactly what I meant, that rayiner and I are not in material disagreement on the issue of precedents (though perhaps on our interpretation of precedent existing in FISC decisions, irrespective of their reach to other courts), that the issue of precedents is not at all related to the act of being a rubber-stamp, and apparently we can't get away from continually making pointless comments about precedents. As for calling the author a troll? No, sorry. You're incorrect there. I asked if the author was here for trolling. It was an honest question, not an accusation. By the time we'd gone into the third round of saying the same things, I was seriously wondering if I was just being trolled for pedantic quibbles over how a particular word or set of words was interpreted.

rayiner 13y ago

First, you did say something about the precedent issue, because you claimed in your second paragraph that the FISC was creating binding precedent that shaped the law in its area. That's true for the Fed. Cir., but not for FISC. Second, and this is more pointing out an implication of your point rather than a disagreement, FISC being a rubber stamp is much less of a problem than Fed. Cir. being a rubber stamp. FISC being a rubber stamp only affects warrant requests that come in front of FISC itself. Fed. Cir. being a rubber stamp has ripple effects throughout the entire court system because it creates precedent binding on every district court and appellate court in the country.

bobwaycott 13y ago
Are you just here for trolling? I've tried to be very polite, but we're getting nowhere because we're talking past each other (most charitable reading I have). My original statement, to which you replied with particulars about binding precedence, said absolutely zero about establishing precedents that bind other courts. Who cares if one court's rubber stamp affects a wider court radius than the others if they are both operating as rubber stamps for a particular kind of case and that is all that was being said? If you want to have an exchange and dispute whether or not the CAFC operates as a patent litigator's rubber stamp in much the same way that the FISC operates as a spy agency's rubber stamp, then please do so. If not, then by the universe, stop changing the subject to something that is not of primary concern when evaluating whether or not the CAFC is a rubber-stamp patent troll's court. We have nothing to discuss on the precedent issue because I sincerely do not disagree or care to dispute the ways in which the FISC "shaped law in its area", as it is not at all related to the current thread. [edit: removed strongly-worded-out-of-exasperation language. my apologies.]
- rayiner 13y ago
  > My original statement, to which you replied with particulars about binding precedence, said absolutely zero about establishing precedents that bind other courts. Your original statement also said absolutely zero about rubber stamping. Your second statement had two paragraphs: one about rubber stamping, one about binding precedent. It's not "changing the subject" if I fail to read your mind about what the subject happens to be.
  - bobwaycott 13y ago
    If you fail to read my mind? Certainly not. If you fail to read my comment, in which I explicitly state, "Here is what I meant and my intention", and then continue to argue something on which we are not in disagreement? Absolutely. I made it ridiculously clear what my statement meant.
- tptacek 13y ago
  All of the 'rayiner comments on this thread confine themselves to the ideas on the thread itself. It's your comments that assault the people writing the comments, first by inventing a motive their authorship, and now by calling the author a troll.
  - bobwaycott 13y ago
    I typically respect and appreciate your comments, so thanks for interjecting. I am not assaulting people writing comments. Of course, perhaps in your opinion using strong language equates with assaulting the eyes of the readers. I don't hold that view, but I'm happy to apologize if you've been offended. I have not invented motives for rayiner's authorship. I have repeatedly asked what rayiner's motivation is because I am trying to understand why we're talking past each other when we don't have material disagreement on the precedent issue (while repeatedly calling attention to the fact that is not what I was referring to). Just the other day, I read through a very lengthy exchange between you and other commenters doing the same thing--you asked a question that deserved answering, and everyone else changed the subject, diverted attention, attempted to get into your personal opinions and how that had fuck-all to do with your original question. You went what seemed like a dozen rounds continually asking people talking about different things why that had anything at all to do with what you were asking, and reiterating your question. I don't have the interest in going a dozen rounds with the same person to keep saying, "That is not what I was talking about. We do not disagree." I made a jab at the CAFC, and have now wasted several comment rounds on trying to repeatedly explain to the same person exactly what I meant, that rayiner and I are not in material disagreement on the issue of precedents (though perhaps on our interpretation of precedent existing in FISC decisions, irrespective of their reach to other courts), that the issue of precedents is not at all related to the act of being a rubber-stamp, and apparently we can't get away from continually making pointless comments about precedents. As for calling the author a troll? No, sorry. You're incorrect there. I asked if the author was here for trolling. It was an honest question, not an accusation. By the time we'd gone into the third round of saying the same things, I was seriously wondering if I was just being trolled for pedantic quibbles over how a particular word or set of words was interpreted.