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Why I'm Not Proud To Be French

18 points by marcgg 13y ago

mathattack 13y ago
Humanism trumps nationalism. This is a good creed, that can keep us out of many wars. I still think the author should be proud of French food and French culture.
- marcgg 13y ago
  I'm proud of French food when manage to cook something good :)
jvzr 13y ago
Disclaimer: I'm French too. I think Marc nails it. Being born here rather than in the US means that one will have a different view of pride. French aren't proud of being french, French don't hang flags in their yard nor do they sing the national anthem each morning in school. Heck, we even allow (or rather do not disapprove of) some of our footballers to not sing the anthem at the start of the matches (mind the double negative). We like our country and we wish great things for it, but we are not proud of it. We were born and raised in a country that has seen some serious shit and done some terrible things, things that we learn of at school. Final point: the US (as a country) are young and "innocent". France is an old dinosaur in comparison.
krumiro79 13y ago
I totally agree. I'm not proud to be Italian either, but I find myself to be happy as an Italian when Italians excel in music, food or science for example..
LoganCale 13y ago
I'm American, and I agree completely. One should reserve pride for things they had control over achieving, not that which is a coincidence of birth.
toretore 13y ago
This guy gets it. Being proud of one's nationality makes no sense. You have no right to take pride in something you didn't have a part in. Likewise, you have no obligation to feel shame for something you didn't take part in, like a country's wars or human rights abuses. Attaching your sense of pride and self worth on something you can't control is a weakness. It doesn't matter what it is, it could be a nation, a political ideology, a religion or a football team. As long as you don't control it, you're subject to its inevitable changes whether good or bad - your sense of pride or shame is outside of your control. To be independent is to be strong. Your country maintains secret torture facilities or spies on its citizens? Not your fault; you didn't approve of it and that's as far as your obligation goes. You can be proud of your work to oppose it, but the shame belongs to the perpetrators.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
SloughFeg 13y ago
This sort of opinion hinges in the assumption that people are completely independent from whatever environment they've lived in. Is it also absurd for a graduate to be proud of his alma mater or a son to be proud of his parent? Pride from both of these stems from how their influence added to you as a person, not just because you happened to be around them.
tribeofone 13y ago
And what does this have to do with hacking?
- camus 13y ago
  nothing , c'est juste parler pour ne rien dire ;)
- marcgg 13y ago
  not much, but it's pretty much established that HN covers a group of topics that interests a given community. Right now on the homepage there's an article on "Alcoholism in Antarctica", discussions about royalties or implications of being under state surveillance... Looking at your profile I can even say that you already knew that, seeing that you submitted an article about advertising and another one about world ward 2.
voneger 13y ago
Would say I'm proud of seing a fellow french citizen nail the "nationality pride" idiocy, but I'm scared of creating a paradox that could swallow the universe and make deloreans apear in my living room. Nationality pride is a refuge, an ego booster, and a few psychologists/sociologists/philosophers have tackled the subject with great insight. And I believe it is sound to outgrow it, as OP did. But still, we've got the best cheese, don't we? ;)

18 points by marcgg 13y ago

Humanism trumps nationalism. This is a good creed, that can keep us out of many wars. I still think the author should be proud of French food and French culture.

marcgg 13y ago
I'm proud of French food when manage to cook something good :)

jvzr 13y ago

Disclaimer: I'm French too. I think Marc nails it. Being born here rather than in the US means that one will have a different view of pride. French aren't proud of being french, French don't hang flags in their yard nor do they sing the national anthem each morning in school. Heck, we even allow (or rather do not disapprove of) some of our footballers to not sing the anthem at the start of the matches (mind the double negative). We like our country and we wish great things for it, but we are not proud of it. We were born and raised in a country that has seen some serious shit and done some terrible things, things that we learn of at school. Final point: the US (as a country) are young and "innocent". France is an old dinosaur in comparison.

krumiro79 13y ago

I totally agree. I'm not proud to be Italian either, but I find myself to be happy as an Italian when Italians excel in music, food or science for example..

LoganCale 13y ago

I'm American, and I agree completely. One should reserve pride for things they had control over achieving, not that which is a coincidence of birth.

toretore 13y ago

This guy gets it. Being proud of one's nationality makes no sense. You have no right to take pride in something you didn't have a part in. Likewise, you have no obligation to feel shame for something you didn't take part in, like a country's wars or human rights abuses. Attaching your sense of pride and self worth on something you can't control is a weakness. It doesn't matter what it is, it could be a nation, a political ideology, a religion or a football team. As long as you don't control it, you're subject to its inevitable changes whether good or bad - your sense of pride or shame is outside of your control. To be independent is to be strong. Your country maintains secret torture facilities or spies on its citizens? Not your fault; you didn't approve of it and that's as far as your obligation goes. You can be proud of your work to oppose it, but the shame belongs to the perpetrators.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

SloughFeg 13y ago

This sort of opinion hinges in the assumption that people are completely independent from whatever environment they've lived in. Is it also absurd for a graduate to be proud of his alma mater or a son to be proud of his parent? Pride from both of these stems from how their influence added to you as a person, not just because you happened to be around them.

tribeofone 13y ago

And what does this have to do with hacking?

camus 13y ago
nothing , c'est juste parler pour ne rien dire ;)
marcgg 13y ago
not much, but it's pretty much established that HN covers a group of topics that interests a given community. Right now on the homepage there's an article on "Alcoholism in Antarctica", discussions about royalties or implications of being under state surveillance... Looking at your profile I can even say that you already knew that, seeing that you submitted an article about advertising and another one about world ward 2.

voneger 13y ago

Would say I'm proud of seing a fellow french citizen nail the "nationality pride" idiocy, but I'm scared of creating a paradox that could swallow the universe and make deloreans apear in my living room. Nationality pride is a refuge, an ego booster, and a few psychologists/sociologists/philosophers have tackled the subject with great insight. And I believe it is sound to outgrow it, as OP did. But still, we've got the best cheese, don't we? ;)