4 ms·

Ask HN: should I care about losing karma points?

8 points by websitescenes 13y ago

So apparently my ideas are very unpopular and I always get down votes. Does this matter or should I keep speaking my mind?

X4 13y ago
Don't care about virtual Karma. Really don't! It's addictive, can destroy your mood and affect your life. The same applies for "likes". See it as a kind of addiction, a sickness, something that is manipulative and ill-fated. I don't say anything about your comments, your style, or your person! I'll let others do help you with that, because I'm not qualified for that. Life is about making the life of other people better. Your life only becomes better this way. Well, you might think about Oil barons, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, PRISM etc., but the reality is that whatever they do makes someone's life better and people pay for it and in return their own life becomes better too. One has to accept that even a million likes or karma points have a low potential of changing your life to the better. Many reading this will think that having million karma points will make you popular and that this has only upsides, but they aren't right. If you "create" something instead of becoming popular for what you think, hate, like, adore etc. then you really make a difference in your life and especially in the life of other people. We're speaking about a developer/manager career, no a political career, keep that in mind. (As a politician for example you're allowed to be a hypocrite as long as you can defend yourself with arguments.) And if you notice that the time you invest in formulating arguments isn't respected, you're practically argueing in the wrong channel, with the wrong people or about the wrong topic.
- websitescenes 13y ago
  Thanks, very sobering. I am struggling with this recently. I have been trying to make people like me online and its been a losing battle. I believe you are correct about your suggestions. I am going to abandon my quest for recognition and do things help people instead. That is such a better use of time, yet it never occurred to me as plainly as you put it. Thank you
  - kls 13y ago
    You can't make people like you, but you can be a likeable person, the way that you do that is to serve people. Help them better themselves and in the process you better yourself. You learn valuable skills like patients and empathy both go a long way and people see them in your actions. When people know you are a genuinely good person not acting in self interests they are more likely to genuinely like you both on and off line. The original poster is right, the quest for karma or any other recognition is a self serving quest, the fruits of which are always tasteless and unrewarding because they are a quest for acceptance hidden behind a trinket. Once you receive the trinket the acceptance for that act is gone and you are left in the same state you where before that. It's akin to a drug and it can become addictive, because it is not permanent, the high of momentary acceptance fades and you are back on the treadmill. Now if you contrast this with genuinely improving someone's life then every time you see the person you have helped in a better state you see the trophies of your accomplishments and is far more rewarding.
    - websitescenes 13y ago
      Spot on again! You guys are painting a real nice picture. I am definitely abandoning karma as a self worth indicator. I already kicked drugs and I don't want to start again.
    - X4 13y ago
      Just in case it's not clear enough, @kls doesn't mean attributing one's life to someone else or someone specific, it can easily be mistaken for that. There would be enough people who'd love to profit from such naivety in that matter.
      - kls 13y ago
        Absolutely I am not suggesting being a door mat to people who would look to exploit you, or putting all your self worth into something external, helping to improve others is an internal quest, to perfect oneself. That being said, being kind to others and generous to others and the ones that reciprocate are people you want to help because they are the type of people that view the world as water lifts all boats and do not have the mentality of someone has to loose for them to win.
Ihmahr 13y ago
There you go, a little bit of karma for you ;)
- websitescenes 13y ago
  Haha thanks. This isn't a karma grab though.
tptacek 13y ago
Here are two comments you wrote that were downvoted, where you subsequently complained about being downvoted: Thanks for what? Sounds like your opinion is made up. Still trying to figure out if this is a question. I like Ruby about as much as PHP; I think it's more about what you build on the language or what framework you use. This is an empty comment that includes a (mild) personal attack. Dude, I'm not your teacher. I come here to learn. Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. Just working right now. Maybe I'll post an example later. This is just an empty comment. In both cases, you'd have been better off saying nothing at all. You were heavily downvoted recently for being supportive of Obama; I sympathize, but also wouldn't have written those comments because they're pointlessly asking for downvotes and anger. But your political comments don't seem to be a problem (you didn't complain after they got downvoted).
- websitescenes 13y ago
  I see my error in these instances. Good critique.
nmcfarl 13y ago
X4’s first line on Karma affecting your mood and life is dead on. Divorcing your self-esteem from these social indicators is important, but difficult as the whole point of them is social coercion. Which in a round about way brings us back to why you should care (but only a little)- karma exists to push people into conforming with the rules of society on the site. If you are being punished too badly in the karma ranks you are not conforming. (Karma also has a lot of noise - a little punishment is to be expected.) This will presumably be punished with a hell ban after some instance of severe enough non-conformity, and with that you’ll be straight out of the community. I’d look at what you are doing, and if the things you are being punished for are things that matter to you (and thus perhaps you should give up on this place), or are stylistic, or some form of social grace. In the latter cases you could conform with little sacrifice and that would give you a better platform to interact with others on the site, while at the same time removing those ugly drops in karma:)
- websitescenes 13y ago
  Also a very sobering addition. Conformity has always been very hard for me and has caused me problems throughout my life. I've been kicked out of schools and thrown in jail for non conformity. Knowing this I have to constantly battle this emotion inside me. I want to be part of this community because I love tech and development. I need to find my place here and I think this comment helps me. Thanks
gesman 13y ago
Downvoting is an attempt to feel "in control" by distracted individuals who disagrees with your opinion. Make them irrelevant by expressing your free thoughts.
- websitescenes 13y ago
  This is the assumption I have been operating on but it has made me mentally sick fighting battles that don't mean anything. I need to adjust the way I am contributing to and analyzing hacker news.
  - gesman 13y ago
    No. Adjust the way you feel about actions of others. Git rid of "wanting approval" and keep posting your genuine thoughts.
    - websitescenes 13y ago
      I will try to find balance. I definitely want to get rid of the "wanting approval" aspect. I also want to continue to post my genuine thoughts but I a want to use more of a filter in what thoughts I post and post them to the appropriate channels. I am somewhat new to all of this and I am trying to find my balance. Thank you for your support.

8 points by websitescenes 13y ago

So apparently my ideas are very unpopular and I always get down votes. Does this matter or should I keep speaking my mind?

X4 13y ago

Don't care about virtual Karma. Really don't! It's addictive, can destroy your mood and affect your life. The same applies for "likes". See it as a kind of addiction, a sickness, something that is manipulative and ill-fated. I don't say anything about your comments, your style, or your person! I'll let others do help you with that, because I'm not qualified for that. Life is about making the life of other people better. Your life only becomes better this way. Well, you might think about Oil barons, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, PRISM etc., but the reality is that whatever they do makes someone's life better and people pay for it and in return their own life becomes better too. One has to accept that even a million likes or karma points have a low potential of changing your life to the better. Many reading this will think that having million karma points will make you popular and that this has only upsides, but they aren't right. If you "create" something instead of becoming popular for what you think, hate, like, adore etc. then you really make a difference in your life and especially in the life of other people. We're speaking about a developer/manager career, no a political career, keep that in mind. (As a politician for example you're allowed to be a hypocrite as long as you can defend yourself with arguments.) And if you notice that the time you invest in formulating arguments isn't respected, you're practically argueing in the wrong channel, with the wrong people or about the wrong topic.

websitescenes 13y ago
Thanks, very sobering. I am struggling with this recently. I have been trying to make people like me online and its been a losing battle. I believe you are correct about your suggestions. I am going to abandon my quest for recognition and do things help people instead. That is such a better use of time, yet it never occurred to me as plainly as you put it. Thank you
- kls 13y ago
  You can't make people like you, but you can be a likeable person, the way that you do that is to serve people. Help them better themselves and in the process you better yourself. You learn valuable skills like patients and empathy both go a long way and people see them in your actions. When people know you are a genuinely good person not acting in self interests they are more likely to genuinely like you both on and off line. The original poster is right, the quest for karma or any other recognition is a self serving quest, the fruits of which are always tasteless and unrewarding because they are a quest for acceptance hidden behind a trinket. Once you receive the trinket the acceptance for that act is gone and you are left in the same state you where before that. It's akin to a drug and it can become addictive, because it is not permanent, the high of momentary acceptance fades and you are back on the treadmill. Now if you contrast this with genuinely improving someone's life then every time you see the person you have helped in a better state you see the trophies of your accomplishments and is far more rewarding.
  - websitescenes 13y ago
    Spot on again! You guys are painting a real nice picture. I am definitely abandoning karma as a self worth indicator. I already kicked drugs and I don't want to start again.
  - X4 13y ago
    Just in case it's not clear enough, @kls doesn't mean attributing one's life to someone else or someone specific, it can easily be mistaken for that. There would be enough people who'd love to profit from such naivety in that matter.
    - kls 13y ago
      Absolutely I am not suggesting being a door mat to people who would look to exploit you, or putting all your self worth into something external, helping to improve others is an internal quest, to perfect oneself. That being said, being kind to others and generous to others and the ones that reciprocate are people you want to help because they are the type of people that view the world as water lifts all boats and do not have the mentality of someone has to loose for them to win.

Ihmahr 13y ago

There you go, a little bit of karma for you ;)

websitescenes 13y ago
Haha thanks. This isn't a karma grab though.

tptacek 13y ago

Here are two comments you wrote that were downvoted, where you subsequently complained about being downvoted: Thanks for what? Sounds like your opinion is made up. Still trying to figure out if this is a question. I like Ruby about as much as PHP; I think it's more about what you build on the language or what framework you use. This is an empty comment that includes a (mild) personal attack. Dude, I'm not your teacher. I come here to learn. Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. Just working right now. Maybe I'll post an example later. This is just an empty comment. In both cases, you'd have been better off saying nothing at all. You were heavily downvoted recently for being supportive of Obama; I sympathize, but also wouldn't have written those comments because they're pointlessly asking for downvotes and anger. But your political comments don't seem to be a problem (you didn't complain after they got downvoted).

websitescenes 13y ago
I see my error in these instances. Good critique.

nmcfarl 13y ago

X4’s first line on Karma affecting your mood and life is dead on. Divorcing your self-esteem from these social indicators is important, but difficult as the whole point of them is social coercion. Which in a round about way brings us back to why you should care (but only a little)- karma exists to push people into conforming with the rules of society on the site. If you are being punished too badly in the karma ranks you are not conforming. (Karma also has a lot of noise - a little punishment is to be expected.) This will presumably be punished with a hell ban after some instance of severe enough non-conformity, and with that you’ll be straight out of the community. I’d look at what you are doing, and if the things you are being punished for are things that matter to you (and thus perhaps you should give up on this place), or are stylistic, or some form of social grace. In the latter cases you could conform with little sacrifice and that would give you a better platform to interact with others on the site, while at the same time removing those ugly drops in karma:)

websitescenes 13y ago
Also a very sobering addition. Conformity has always been very hard for me and has caused me problems throughout my life. I've been kicked out of schools and thrown in jail for non conformity. Knowing this I have to constantly battle this emotion inside me. I want to be part of this community because I love tech and development. I need to find my place here and I think this comment helps me. Thanks

gesman 13y ago

Downvoting is an attempt to feel "in control" by distracted individuals who disagrees with your opinion. Make them irrelevant by expressing your free thoughts.

websitescenes 13y ago
This is the assumption I have been operating on but it has made me mentally sick fighting battles that don't mean anything. I need to adjust the way I am contributing to and analyzing hacker news.
- gesman 13y ago
  No. Adjust the way you feel about actions of others. Git rid of "wanting approval" and keep posting your genuine thoughts.
  - websitescenes 13y ago
    I will try to find balance. I definitely want to get rid of the "wanting approval" aspect. I also want to continue to post my genuine thoughts but I a want to use more of a filter in what thoughts I post and post them to the appropriate channels. I am somewhat new to all of this and I am trying to find my balance. Thank you for your support.