7 ms·

Australian government shelves controversial data retention scheme

159 points by ra 13y ago

femto 13y ago
Possibly helped by 20% of the Australian electorate taking the newly formed Wikileaks Party seriously, and there being a Federal Election in 90 days [1]. [1] http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/roy-morgan-research/2013/06/11/1370907445/new-polling-shows-assanges-wikileaks-leads-new-partie http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/roy-morgan-research/2013/0...
- vacri 13y ago
  Unless they've changed in recent years, Roy Morgan research is utterly worthless. I had a friend who worked there and he brought home one of their questionnaires. It was full of the most leading, biased questions you could hope to write. I'd sooner trust a guess from a random stranger in a pub than Roy Morgan's cooked books.
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    I have to second this. Once Scott Steel started blogging as "Possum Comitatus" a few years back, Roy Morgan fizzled and evaporated like spit on a BBQ plate. It's just not very good polling.
- ihsw 13y ago
  Australia also has compulsory voting: > Countries with compulsory voting generally hold elections on a Saturday or Sunday as evidenced in nations such as Australia, to ensure that working people can fulfill their duty to cast their vote. Postal and pre-poll voting is provided to people who cannot vote on polling day, and mobile voting booths may also be taken to old age homes and hospitals to cater for immobilized citizens. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting Notably, this results in election candidates adopting populist policies that more closely represent their constituents.
  - verelo 13y ago
    Saying voting is compulsory isn't 100% accurate. The actual requirement is that you attend the poll, there is no way anyone can enforce that you cast a vote. You can simply turn up, get your name crossed off and walk right out the door without voting, or as many others choose to, cast an invalid vote.
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      However, while it is in practice unenforceable, you are still legally obliged to vote. In Australia it is considered a bit of a crisis if turnout falls below 85%.
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    > Notably, this results in election candidates adopting populist policies that more closely represent their constituents. I think a better term is more centrist policies. In compulsory systems, the Median Voter Theorem [0] is a much more accurate description of behaviour. In particular it means that the major parties can't be captured as easily by highly motivated minorities. And it also means that our politics is very transactional compared to countries with voluntary FPTP. No need to "get out the base", so no need for soaring rhetoric and less need for negative advertising. Some people see our generally uninspiring politicians as a bug; I see it as evidence of underlying features. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem
    - gregsq 13y ago
      The numbers were large enough in the most recent English elections to arrive at the same kind of 'centrist' outcome as in the most recent Australian general election. In England, turnout increases generally when important contention arises. I think your point is correct, but not unique.
      - jacques_chester 13y ago
        My point is that all our elections tend to lead to centrist outcomes because all our elections have, by voluntary standards, very high turnout.
- goatforce5 13y ago
  It should be pointed out that due to the way Australia's preferential voting system works [1] candidates that don't actually stand a chance of winning have a lot of power at election time. When voting, all candidates are numbered in order of your preference. If your first candidate doesn't secure a majority of votes, their votes are removed, and then allocated to the voters second preference and so on, until a winner is found. Candidates also hand out 'how to vote' cards [2] that show how the candidate suggests you allocate your preferences. If a smaller candidate or party is getting decent support before the election, the other parties will then try to make deals with that candidate to secure their second preferences. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#Preferential_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#P... [2] http://www.prsa.org.au/htv_cards.htm http://www.prsa.org.au/htv_cards.htm
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    Preference deals only really matter in marginal electorates in close elections. In Australia seats are laid out by a politically neutral Electoral Commission. There's no gerrymandering, so seats can and do have a varying distribution of "safeness" for each of the major parties. In a safe seat, the necessity for preference deals is greatly diminished. Only in marginal seats do preference deals count, and only when the nationwide margin of preference is sufficiently close that a few seats will decide the election. The upcoming election is absolutely not shaping up that way. On current figures, the Labor Party are going to be thumped very hard; potentially the worst drubbing in Federal election history. The Liberal-National coalition have somewhere between zero and zilch requirement to kiss up to minor and microparties.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - bobwaycott 13y ago
      > "... seats are laid out by a politically neutral Electoral Commission. There's no gerrymandering ..." Would love to see this here in the states.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  I feel like you are short-changing the very hard work done by Electronic Frontiers Australia and some ISPs (iinet in particular) to campaign against the worst excesses of this government and the government before it.
vixen99 13y ago
"its Prismlike scheme"
- JabavuAdams 13y ago
  Yes, please edit the title to replace "it's" with "its". In this context "it's" means "it is". /petpeeve
  - abraininavat 13y ago
    If this is a pet-peeve of yours, how the hell do you manage to be a reader of this site?
siddboots 13y ago
> "A controversial "data retention" scheme that would have allowed Australians' internet and telephone activities to be stored for up to two years... ... in fact, the proposed scheme would have been mandatory. http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=pjcis%2Fnsl2012%2Freport.htm http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Hous...
senorcastro 13y ago
Still can't play Left4 Dead 2.
- reitzensteinm 13y ago
  I don't know if people are down voting because they don't get the reference, or because it's irrelevant, but this is what he's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_4_Dead_2#Australian_ban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_4_Dead_2#Australian_ban Leaving those who actually played the game scratching their heads.
robbiep 13y ago
Why make our own system when the DSD and ASIO can just listen in thanks to the US?
lazyjones 13y ago
I have to wonder whether this is because it would have been (suddenly) unpopular, or because they found out what kind of data the NSA is able to offer to every secret service in the world ... Also, SCNR: it's "its" (possessive), not "it's" (= it is) in the title (says the non-native speaker who firmly believes that such mistakes are contagious).
- abraininavat 13y ago
  says the non-native speaker who firmly believes that such mistakes are contagious In that case, you should know that the comma in your first sentence shouldn't be there. To understand why, consider this sentence with a similar form: "I have to wonder whether this is an apple, or an orange." I know it's pedantic and doesn't add anything to the conversation, but there are lots of people in here and we wouldn't want it to catch.
  - pablobm 13y ago
    Whether that comma should or not be there is actually not universally agreed. This punctuation is known as "Serial comma"[1], and some style guides require its use. On that sentence though, I think it's different. The first part of the sentence is long enough that the comma is welcome as a natural stop (and breather) before delivering the second half. By the way: I'm not a native speaker either. [1] Also better known as "Oxford comma": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
    - abraininavat 13y ago
      Did you not even read the first sentence on the wiki page you linked to? Here it is: In punctuation, a serial comma or series comma (also called Oxford comma and Harvard comma) is a comma placed immediately before the coordinating conjunction (usually and, or, or nor) in a series of three or more terms. Note the last four words. three or more terms On that sentence though, I think it's different. The first part of the sentence is long enough that the comma is welcome as a natural stop (and breather) before delivering the second half. Despite your feeling that commas should, be inserted randomly when we feel the sentence, has gone too long, that is not standard English. You also missed the entire, point of my comment. It has nothing to, do with commas.
jfoster 13y ago
Reading between the lines of this article and the "at this time" weasel words, it sounds like might still be on their "things to do" list.
zmmmmm 13y ago
Too bad ... it would have been hilarious to see them attempt to announce this now, in the current political climate and the brouhaha over NSA spying going on.

159 points by ra 13y ago

femto 13y ago

Possibly helped by 20% of the Australian electorate taking the newly formed Wikileaks Party seriously, and there being a Federal Election in 90 days [1]. [1] http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/roy-morgan-research/2013/06/11/1370907445/new-polling-shows-assanges-wikileaks-leads-new-partie http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/roy-morgan-research/2013/0...

vacri 13y ago
Unless they've changed in recent years, Roy Morgan research is utterly worthless. I had a friend who worked there and he brought home one of their questionnaires. It was full of the most leading, biased questions you could hope to write. I'd sooner trust a guess from a random stranger in a pub than Roy Morgan's cooked books.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  I have to second this. Once Scott Steel started blogging as "Possum Comitatus" a few years back, Roy Morgan fizzled and evaporated like spit on a BBQ plate. It's just not very good polling.
ihsw 13y ago
Australia also has compulsory voting: > Countries with compulsory voting generally hold elections on a Saturday or Sunday as evidenced in nations such as Australia, to ensure that working people can fulfill their duty to cast their vote. Postal and pre-poll voting is provided to people who cannot vote on polling day, and mobile voting booths may also be taken to old age homes and hospitals to cater for immobilized citizens. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting Notably, this results in election candidates adopting populist policies that more closely represent their constituents.
- verelo 13y ago
  Saying voting is compulsory isn't 100% accurate. The actual requirement is that you attend the poll, there is no way anyone can enforce that you cast a vote. You can simply turn up, get your name crossed off and walk right out the door without voting, or as many others choose to, cast an invalid vote.
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    However, while it is in practice unenforceable, you are still legally obliged to vote. In Australia it is considered a bit of a crisis if turnout falls below 85%.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  > Notably, this results in election candidates adopting populist policies that more closely represent their constituents. I think a better term is more centrist policies. In compulsory systems, the Median Voter Theorem [0] is a much more accurate description of behaviour. In particular it means that the major parties can't be captured as easily by highly motivated minorities. And it also means that our politics is very transactional compared to countries with voluntary FPTP. No need to "get out the base", so no need for soaring rhetoric and less need for negative advertising. Some people see our generally uninspiring politicians as a bug; I see it as evidence of underlying features. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem
  - gregsq 13y ago
    The numbers were large enough in the most recent English elections to arrive at the same kind of 'centrist' outcome as in the most recent Australian general election. In England, turnout increases generally when important contention arises. I think your point is correct, but not unique.
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      My point is that all our elections tend to lead to centrist outcomes because all our elections have, by voluntary standards, very high turnout.
goatforce5 13y ago
It should be pointed out that due to the way Australia's preferential voting system works [1] candidates that don't actually stand a chance of winning have a lot of power at election time. When voting, all candidates are numbered in order of your preference. If your first candidate doesn't secure a majority of votes, their votes are removed, and then allocated to the voters second preference and so on, until a winner is found. Candidates also hand out 'how to vote' cards [2] that show how the candidate suggests you allocate your preferences. If a smaller candidate or party is getting decent support before the election, the other parties will then try to make deals with that candidate to secure their second preferences. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#Preferential_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#P... [2] http://www.prsa.org.au/htv_cards.htm http://www.prsa.org.au/htv_cards.htm
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  Preference deals only really matter in marginal electorates in close elections. In Australia seats are laid out by a politically neutral Electoral Commission. There's no gerrymandering, so seats can and do have a varying distribution of "safeness" for each of the major parties. In a safe seat, the necessity for preference deals is greatly diminished. Only in marginal seats do preference deals count, and only when the nationwide margin of preference is sufficiently close that a few seats will decide the election. The upcoming election is absolutely not shaping up that way. On current figures, the Labor Party are going to be thumped very hard; potentially the worst drubbing in Federal election history. The Liberal-National coalition have somewhere between zero and zilch requirement to kiss up to minor and microparties.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - bobwaycott 13y ago
    > "... seats are laid out by a politically neutral Electoral Commission. There's no gerrymandering ..." Would love to see this here in the states.
jacques_chester 13y ago
I feel like you are short-changing the very hard work done by Electronic Frontiers Australia and some ISPs (iinet in particular) to campaign against the worst excesses of this government and the government before it.

vixen99 13y ago

"its Prismlike scheme"

JabavuAdams 13y ago
Yes, please edit the title to replace "it's" with "its". In this context "it's" means "it is". /petpeeve
- abraininavat 13y ago
  If this is a pet-peeve of yours, how the hell do you manage to be a reader of this site?

siddboots 13y ago

> "A controversial "data retention" scheme that would have allowed Australians' internet and telephone activities to be stored for up to two years... ... in fact, the proposed scheme would have been mandatory. http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=pjcis%2Fnsl2012%2Freport.htm http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Hous...

senorcastro 13y ago

Still can't play Left4 Dead 2.

reitzensteinm 13y ago
I don't know if people are down voting because they don't get the reference, or because it's irrelevant, but this is what he's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_4_Dead_2#Australian_ban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_4_Dead_2#Australian_ban Leaving those who actually played the game scratching their heads.

robbiep 13y ago

Why make our own system when the DSD and ASIO can just listen in thanks to the US?

lazyjones 13y ago

I have to wonder whether this is because it would have been (suddenly) unpopular, or because they found out what kind of data the NSA is able to offer to every secret service in the world ... Also, SCNR: it's "its" (possessive), not "it's" (= it is) in the title (says the non-native speaker who firmly believes that such mistakes are contagious).

abraininavat 13y ago
says the non-native speaker who firmly believes that such mistakes are contagious In that case, you should know that the comma in your first sentence shouldn't be there. To understand why, consider this sentence with a similar form: "I have to wonder whether this is an apple, or an orange." I know it's pedantic and doesn't add anything to the conversation, but there are lots of people in here and we wouldn't want it to catch.
- pablobm 13y ago
  Whether that comma should or not be there is actually not universally agreed. This punctuation is known as "Serial comma"[1], and some style guides require its use. On that sentence though, I think it's different. The first part of the sentence is long enough that the comma is welcome as a natural stop (and breather) before delivering the second half. By the way: I'm not a native speaker either. [1] Also better known as "Oxford comma": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
  - abraininavat 13y ago
    Did you not even read the first sentence on the wiki page you linked to? Here it is: In punctuation, a serial comma or series comma (also called Oxford comma and Harvard comma) is a comma placed immediately before the coordinating conjunction (usually and, or, or nor) in a series of three or more terms. Note the last four words. three or more terms On that sentence though, I think it's different. The first part of the sentence is long enough that the comma is welcome as a natural stop (and breather) before delivering the second half. Despite your feeling that commas should, be inserted randomly when we feel the sentence, has gone too long, that is not standard English. You also missed the entire, point of my comment. It has nothing to, do with commas.

jfoster 13y ago

Reading between the lines of this article and the "at this time" weasel words, it sounds like might still be on their "things to do" list.

zmmmmm 13y ago

Too bad ... it would have been hilarious to see them attempt to announce this now, in the current political climate and the brouhaha over NSA spying going on.