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The thought goes something like this: "The burglar is a 'victim of society' and he needs treatment and education. We need to feel sorry for him. He needs our pr

The thought goes something like this: "The burglar is a 'victim of society' and he needs treatment and education. We need to feel sorry for him. He needs our protection". Sickening. One guy used his kid's little bat to hit a junkie on his legs and was thrown in jail, fined for about $ 300 and got to visit courtrooms for 2 years because he couldn't work for the army with a 'record' and he needed this record to go away. Police even tell you (off the record) to kick the burglars ass and later say he 'fell down the stairs'. Same thing when you're a witness. The defendant has the right to know who testifies against him. But you do not have the right to even know the defendant's last name... See also: "Lawyer Job Knoester about beating a burglar" : http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nolet-advocaten.nl%2Fnolet%2Ffs3_site.nsf%2FhtmlViewDocuments%2FC12A73D60CD29666C1257ABF004D77A7 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=ht... Or: Roadmap, How to hit a burglar: "A baseball bat under your bed is wrong. By arming yourself you take the risk of escalation. The danger is that you use the weapon quickly. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrcnext.nl%2Fblog%2F2011%2F11%2F18%2Fstappenplan-hoe-mep-je-n-inbreker-uit-je-huis%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=ht...

DominikR 13y ago
I don't know anyone who thinks that a burglar is a "victim of society", but why shouldn't a burglar get a chance to better himself? Whats the point of clubbing a burglar to death or breaking his legs anyway if he is no threat to me? If I wanted to live in an environment where people perceived "eye for an eye" as justice, I'd move to some country with sharia law like Saudi Arabia/Iran/Afghanistan. I am glad that we have more civilized ways to deal with criminals here.
- newnewnew 13y ago
  I don't see how keeping uncivilized people around is good for a country. How often does a violent robber really reform himself to become an asset for society? In "The Diamond Age" a character is executed for mugging a guy and that seems reasonable to me.
- cesarbs 13y ago
  The idea is not to club the burglar to death. The point is that such laws are overly protective towards the one that are doing bad stuff, and whoever tries to get in their way to prevent them from doing such usually ends up in a bad situation. A family member once told me a story about a friend of him who's a Judo instructor. The guy was waiting at a bus stop and someone attempted to bug him at gunpoint (a daily occurrence in big Brazilian cities). The guy was able to immobilize the criminal and take his gun, but since he resisted and attempted to fight, he beat him enough that he didn't have any more energy to keep fighting. He then called the Police. Guess what? He was detained for having beaten the criminal! Stories like that are abundant in Brazil. My mom is a Judge there, so I've heard a fair share of those. Not only regular citizens get punished for giving criminals what they deserve, but police officers to. Once in the city where my mom worked there was a large police operation to arrest a group of drug dealers. It ended up bad with gun shots and all. The aftermath was that the officers that fired shots against the dealers were all in bad waters after that, and got suspended for a while. What's the point in that??
  - DominikR 13y ago
    The laws in western europe (to be more specific: Austria - I don't know that much about Brazilian laws) ensure that only the state has the right (in most cases) to use violence and give criminals what they "deserve". It cannot be that a normal person or even worse, a victim, tries bringing justice (or at least what they personally believe to be justice) to criminals (or people they believe to be criminals), because they are not trained policement that know their limits, nor are they usually judges. I am not saying that a normal person should not use self defense, I definitely would, but there are limits to what is considered an appropriate reaction. I cannot kill someone if the person doesn't show aggression towards me or someone else. (a burglar breaking into my home) Likewise I cannot beat someone into unconsciousness if I could have just held that person down until police arrives. What did your friend do to the robber after he disarmed him? Could he just have held him down? What kind of aggression did he use? From your description many things are possible, from slapping him, to breaking his spine and many things in between. The same goes for the policemen. Did they needlessly risk or cause the death of innocent bystanders? That is also something that policemen must consider before they do anything that could start a shooting.

DominikR 13y ago

I don't know anyone who thinks that a burglar is a "victim of society", but why shouldn't a burglar get a chance to better himself? Whats the point of clubbing a burglar to death or breaking his legs anyway if he is no threat to me? If I wanted to live in an environment where people perceived "eye for an eye" as justice, I'd move to some country with sharia law like Saudi Arabia/Iran/Afghanistan. I am glad that we have more civilized ways to deal with criminals here.

newnewnew 13y ago
I don't see how keeping uncivilized people around is good for a country. How often does a violent robber really reform himself to become an asset for society? In "The Diamond Age" a character is executed for mugging a guy and that seems reasonable to me.
cesarbs 13y ago
The idea is not to club the burglar to death. The point is that such laws are overly protective towards the one that are doing bad stuff, and whoever tries to get in their way to prevent them from doing such usually ends up in a bad situation. A family member once told me a story about a friend of him who's a Judo instructor. The guy was waiting at a bus stop and someone attempted to bug him at gunpoint (a daily occurrence in big Brazilian cities). The guy was able to immobilize the criminal and take his gun, but since he resisted and attempted to fight, he beat him enough that he didn't have any more energy to keep fighting. He then called the Police. Guess what? He was detained for having beaten the criminal! Stories like that are abundant in Brazil. My mom is a Judge there, so I've heard a fair share of those. Not only regular citizens get punished for giving criminals what they deserve, but police officers to. Once in the city where my mom worked there was a large police operation to arrest a group of drug dealers. It ended up bad with gun shots and all. The aftermath was that the officers that fired shots against the dealers were all in bad waters after that, and got suspended for a while. What's the point in that??
- DominikR 13y ago
  The laws in western europe (to be more specific: Austria - I don't know that much about Brazilian laws) ensure that only the state has the right (in most cases) to use violence and give criminals what they "deserve". It cannot be that a normal person or even worse, a victim, tries bringing justice (or at least what they personally believe to be justice) to criminals (or people they believe to be criminals), because they are not trained policement that know their limits, nor are they usually judges. I am not saying that a normal person should not use self defense, I definitely would, but there are limits to what is considered an appropriate reaction. I cannot kill someone if the person doesn't show aggression towards me or someone else. (a burglar breaking into my home) Likewise I cannot beat someone into unconsciousness if I could have just held that person down until police arrives. What did your friend do to the robber after he disarmed him? Could he just have held him down? What kind of aggression did he use? From your description many things are possible, from slapping him, to breaking his spine and many things in between. The same goes for the policemen. Did they needlessly risk or cause the death of innocent bystanders? That is also something that policemen must consider before they do anything that could start a shooting.