6 ms·

I wonder why Europeans feel physically unsafe here while simultaneously finding us extremely friendly. Is it just a normal reaction to being a stranger in a str

by hondje 13y ago

I wonder why Europeans feel physically unsafe here while simultaneously finding us extremely friendly. Is it just a normal reaction to being a stranger in a strange land?

cclogg 13y ago
Maybe they came from a smaller European town and then proceeded into a big city here in North America? I've been to many parts of Czech and a few parts of Germany, and it is very nice there. Never saw anything like we have here in Vancouver with the downtown east-side (ie SF Tenderloin), but maybe I just haven't seen everything.
nikatwork 13y ago
Ozzie here. It's not just being a stranger in a strange land, your country has some dangerous edges. My experience in California: * The police are like military. I saw a couple of incidents, and concluded that if the police pull you up, it's best to drop to the ground and obey. Pretty scary. * I didn't realise that nobody walks when I first arrived. It's pretty easy to end up in the wrong neighbourhood if you go for a long walk. Ie, packs of young rugged looking dudes eyeing you off. * Bums in San Fran. I've never seen first world poverty like that. Very confronting. * The missus visited LA, turned off one exit too early and ended up in Inglewood. Her descriptions of the neighbourhood were... colourful. On the plus side, the nightlife was really safe. In Australia I'm used to constant fistfights and violence around clubs/pubs. On the flipside, I got the feeling that everyone was being so polite and respectful because ya never know who's got a gun. That's not really a relaxing feeling.
- dyno12345 13y ago
  I wouldn't worry about people carrying guns in bars... not something I've ever seen happen. I've spent a good deal of time in Oz and the bar brawling culture there is just not something we have here. It happens sometimes, but usually when it looks like something's going to break out a half dozen people spring up and try to diffuse the situation. 98% of the time it never gets past the shouting-of-threats stage. In Oz it always went from zero to bloodspray in short order.
  - vacri 13y ago
    Depends where you are in Oz. In Melbourne, you don't have bar brawls. There is some violence late at night outside the nightclubs when they close, but the 'bar brawl' is largely myth here.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - dyno12345 13y ago
      I can confirm I don't recall ever seeing a fight in Melbourne. Pretty much everywhere else, though...
  - gadders 13y ago
    You should try the UK. Find some small market town somewhere and wander around after chucking out time on a Saturday night. Loads of fights.
- mitchty 13y ago
  So just as a counterpoint as a native, also in an area with legalized carry, I've never had the feeling everyone was polite and respectful because you don't know if they have a gun. I think that is a bit of projection, never heard anyone say anything similar.
  - nikatwork 13y ago
    I'm talking about clubs/nightlife specifically. And yes it's pure speculation. But I've always wondered - surely it must cross your mind, "is that aggressive drunk wannabe tough-guy packing heat? What if he loses control?" Genuinely curious as I have no reference point.
    - mitchty 13y ago
      To be honest it never has for me. If I see an aggressive person the first thing I do is assess my exit strategy in general. It is the first thing I learnt from my sifu(s) in kung fu, best to remove yourself from potential danger than risk any altercation. That said, I can't recall any time I felt weird at any clubs/etc either, but depending on the crowds I could see where you might be more alert in certain circumstances. I just don't think that's any different than anywhere though. Maybe its because I grew up around the idea of more ubiquitous guns that the idea doesn't scare me, or I''m crazy, probably both. :) Eh, cheers mate, if you're ever in the twin cities ill buy a round.
    - mturmon 13y ago
      I generally agree with the other commenter here (who says he never worries about guns), but I thought it worth adding that the atmosphere can vary depending on the club. It's unusual, but not unheard of, to go through a metal detector (wand) at concerts and some clubs (say, a medium-size venue with space for ~500 and up -- much more unusual at a small club with space for 200, say). Why is there a metal detector? To keep guns and knives out. So, there can be caution and fear around guns in clubs. I don't think the fear is about just guns. I think it's about all manifestations of violence (knives and beat-downs too). Two examples that come to mind are the fan who was attacked at the LA Dodgers game (just a beating) and ended up handicapped, and three hipsters who got shot outside a small but influential indie club in LA (http://www.laweekly.com/2011-01-06/news/mongols-and-hells-angels-invade-hiptown/ http://www.laweekly.com/2011-01-06/news/mongols-and-hells-an...). Teaser quote from that last link, which is worth reading: "It seemed so cheesy, I thought it was a joke," says the guitarist, 30, whom we'll call Brad; he's a witness in the gunman's trial and fears for his life. "When he started shooting, I just stood there staring at him. I couldn't believe anyone would fire a gun into a crowd of nerdy indie-rock kids." It has to be emphasized that the above story was a "story" because it was so weird (I've been to that club, and it really is a classic indie rock skinny hipster hangout).
digitalengineer 13y ago
What do Americans do when they get pulled over? Open the window and hold your hands on the wheel and dashboard? The police in New Orleans took a shot at tourists because when they pulled over their car, the person next to the driver reached over and grabbed a (silver colered) photocamera... Policeman thought it was a gun and shot. I feel European people need a 'How To Interact with the Police' course. Made us very jumpy whenever there was a policecar around.
- javert 13y ago
  > Open the window and hold your hands on the wheel and dashboard? Yeah, they teach you to do that, and if you don't, normally the cop will tell you to do something like that next time you get pulled over. I think it's a good system. The cop doesn't know if you have a gun. The chance is probably 1 in 1,000 or less, but still kinda scary. As a sidenote, America is in many ways more like a 3rd world country than most of Europe. The bad guys will have guns no matter what [1], and it's much safer for us all if the good guys have guns, too. [1] Well, we could change this in a few decades if we ended the drug war and eradicated endemic poverty. But the government is too busy spying on us and planning to invade Syria, to think about making other changes.
  - digitalengineer 13y ago
    Thanks for the reply. On a side note: Most Europeans are (tough to be) very afraid of guns. They're not allowed to own guns (except for very heavily regulated guns for hunting and sports). Even carrying a pocket-knife downtown is against the law, as is defending yourself with something like a baseball bat against burglars at night in your own house. ('Excessive force').
    - cesarbs 13y ago
      I fail to understand how people accept that, especially the last part. That's basically taking away their right to defend themselves and their families. That kind of law favors and protects the bad guys - what's the point in that?

by hondje 13y ago

I wonder why Europeans feel physically unsafe here while simultaneously finding us extremely friendly. Is it just a normal reaction to being a stranger in a strange land?

cclogg 13y ago

Maybe they came from a smaller European town and then proceeded into a big city here in North America? I've been to many parts of Czech and a few parts of Germany, and it is very nice there. Never saw anything like we have here in Vancouver with the downtown east-side (ie SF Tenderloin), but maybe I just haven't seen everything.

nikatwork 13y ago

Ozzie here. It's not just being a stranger in a strange land, your country has some dangerous edges. My experience in California: * The police are like military. I saw a couple of incidents, and concluded that if the police pull you up, it's best to drop to the ground and obey. Pretty scary. * I didn't realise that nobody walks when I first arrived. It's pretty easy to end up in the wrong neighbourhood if you go for a long walk. Ie, packs of young rugged looking dudes eyeing you off. * Bums in San Fran. I've never seen first world poverty like that. Very confronting. * The missus visited LA, turned off one exit too early and ended up in Inglewood. Her descriptions of the neighbourhood were... colourful. On the plus side, the nightlife was really safe. In Australia I'm used to constant fistfights and violence around clubs/pubs. On the flipside, I got the feeling that everyone was being so polite and respectful because ya never know who's got a gun. That's not really a relaxing feeling.

dyno12345 13y ago
I wouldn't worry about people carrying guns in bars... not something I've ever seen happen. I've spent a good deal of time in Oz and the bar brawling culture there is just not something we have here. It happens sometimes, but usually when it looks like something's going to break out a half dozen people spring up and try to diffuse the situation. 98% of the time it never gets past the shouting-of-threats stage. In Oz it always went from zero to bloodspray in short order.
- vacri 13y ago
  Depends where you are in Oz. In Melbourne, you don't have bar brawls. There is some violence late at night outside the nightclubs when they close, but the 'bar brawl' is largely myth here.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - dyno12345 13y ago
    I can confirm I don't recall ever seeing a fight in Melbourne. Pretty much everywhere else, though...
- gadders 13y ago
  You should try the UK. Find some small market town somewhere and wander around after chucking out time on a Saturday night. Loads of fights.
mitchty 13y ago
So just as a counterpoint as a native, also in an area with legalized carry, I've never had the feeling everyone was polite and respectful because you don't know if they have a gun. I think that is a bit of projection, never heard anyone say anything similar.
- nikatwork 13y ago
  I'm talking about clubs/nightlife specifically. And yes it's pure speculation. But I've always wondered - surely it must cross your mind, "is that aggressive drunk wannabe tough-guy packing heat? What if he loses control?" Genuinely curious as I have no reference point.
  - mitchty 13y ago
    To be honest it never has for me. If I see an aggressive person the first thing I do is assess my exit strategy in general. It is the first thing I learnt from my sifu(s) in kung fu, best to remove yourself from potential danger than risk any altercation. That said, I can't recall any time I felt weird at any clubs/etc either, but depending on the crowds I could see where you might be more alert in certain circumstances. I just don't think that's any different than anywhere though. Maybe its because I grew up around the idea of more ubiquitous guns that the idea doesn't scare me, or I''m crazy, probably both. :) Eh, cheers mate, if you're ever in the twin cities ill buy a round.
  - mturmon 13y ago
    I generally agree with the other commenter here (who says he never worries about guns), but I thought it worth adding that the atmosphere can vary depending on the club. It's unusual, but not unheard of, to go through a metal detector (wand) at concerts and some clubs (say, a medium-size venue with space for ~500 and up -- much more unusual at a small club with space for 200, say). Why is there a metal detector? To keep guns and knives out. So, there can be caution and fear around guns in clubs. I don't think the fear is about just guns. I think it's about all manifestations of violence (knives and beat-downs too). Two examples that come to mind are the fan who was attacked at the LA Dodgers game (just a beating) and ended up handicapped, and three hipsters who got shot outside a small but influential indie club in LA (http://www.laweekly.com/2011-01-06/news/mongols-and-hells-angels-invade-hiptown/ http://www.laweekly.com/2011-01-06/news/mongols-and-hells-an...). Teaser quote from that last link, which is worth reading: "It seemed so cheesy, I thought it was a joke," says the guitarist, 30, whom we'll call Brad; he's a witness in the gunman's trial and fears for his life. "When he started shooting, I just stood there staring at him. I couldn't believe anyone would fire a gun into a crowd of nerdy indie-rock kids." It has to be emphasized that the above story was a "story" because it was so weird (I've been to that club, and it really is a classic indie rock skinny hipster hangout).

digitalengineer 13y ago

What do Americans do when they get pulled over? Open the window and hold your hands on the wheel and dashboard? The police in New Orleans took a shot at tourists because when they pulled over their car, the person next to the driver reached over and grabbed a (silver colered) photocamera... Policeman thought it was a gun and shot. I feel European people need a 'How To Interact with the Police' course. Made us very jumpy whenever there was a policecar around.

javert 13y ago
> Open the window and hold your hands on the wheel and dashboard? Yeah, they teach you to do that, and if you don't, normally the cop will tell you to do something like that next time you get pulled over. I think it's a good system. The cop doesn't know if you have a gun. The chance is probably 1 in 1,000 or less, but still kinda scary. As a sidenote, America is in many ways more like a 3rd world country than most of Europe. The bad guys will have guns no matter what [1], and it's much safer for us all if the good guys have guns, too. [1] Well, we could change this in a few decades if we ended the drug war and eradicated endemic poverty. But the government is too busy spying on us and planning to invade Syria, to think about making other changes.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  Thanks for the reply. On a side note: Most Europeans are (tough to be) very afraid of guns. They're not allowed to own guns (except for very heavily regulated guns for hunting and sports). Even carrying a pocket-knife downtown is against the law, as is defending yourself with something like a baseball bat against burglars at night in your own house. ('Excessive force').
  - cesarbs 13y ago
    I fail to understand how people accept that, especially the last part. That's basically taking away their right to defend themselves and their families. That kind of law favors and protects the bad guys - what's the point in that?