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Are you arguing that there exists a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospec

by sk5t 13y ago

Are you arguing that there exists a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospects based around a degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like? As far as I know, every major world culture produces writers, poets, sculptors, and musicians, and in no case is an education in those fields a guaranteed ticket to economic prosperity.

ritchiea 13y ago
You're assuming a lot here. A lot of intelligent people are told at a young age that college is an answer to their life aspirations. Just college. Not college and smart decisions about what to study and what habits to form and who to make friends with and what to do in the years in between. College. That's it. As a culture, we've told young people that. That's what I was told at least. I went to liberal arts school and studied psychology and I had no idea what would be necessary to get a job after graduation. In fact I assumed since I was in college and all these smart interesting adults around me seemed to think studying psychology or English was a normal decision that I wouldn't have to worry about practical things like finding a job afterwards because I was at a good college and after a good college those sort of things fall into place. Fortunately for me I am resourceful and patient with the idea that my education taught me to think and communicate well and that practical skills are things you can acquire on your own time and hard work. But a lot of teenagers are told college alone is an answer. And young people are naive. It is a problem with how we guide young people through their lives not a problem with them not understanding the world.
scarmig 13y ago
Yes. Simple-minded is an obnoxious word; brainwashed gets closer to it but implies too much a malevolent force at work. Cold statistics are one thing, but everyone has trouble actually chewing them over when every part of your environment is telling you "all you need to do is go to college, and everything will work out fine." If you know the ins and outs of how post-college employment works, you're working from a position of stark informational privilege compared to someone who doesn't. The people who succeed as English majors are much louder than the large majority who don't, and the people selling the English majors certainly aren't telling them they have a decent chance of ending up immiserated. If you genuinely enjoy English literature and writing, it's easy to fall into that trap. Many people here majored in CS, and that's awesome and has worked out well for them. But I would also take a gander that, going into college, those people weren't blank slates who had no love of CS and just did a mechanical calculation as to what would generate the most time-discounted income years. They had worked with computers in the past and loved it. It's very easy to overlook how much emotional or arational factors plays into your own choices while condemning those whose arational choices end up tossing them into another bin. Obviously the choices people make aren't totally ignorant of economic factors, but they also aren't determined by them.
krakensden 13y ago
I am saying that there are lots and lots of well meaning authority figures who will look 17 year-olds in the eye and tell them they should just get a degree, and worry about money later. I believe that they do this because high minded nostalgic nonsense like the linked article is published on a regular basis, every year, forever, drumming that idea home.
Crake 13y ago
I have met a LOT of people who thought that their degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like was going to get them a $60,000/year job fresh out of school. Heck, even some of the artists I know expected to be able to pay off their $80,000 in student loans with their art degree. Now they sit around their parents house whenever they're not at their part time retail job and complain about how "the economy" screwed them over.
jlgreco 13y ago
> a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospects based around a degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like? There is a metric fuck-ton of people who get into college and have no idea what they got into college for. That's what happens when you tell entire generations of 18-year-olds that merely having a college degree is the important part, and that they must have a college degree. Counting them off in my head about half the people I went to highschool with (and kept in touch with) picked majors based on what interested them most, only to start panicing 3 to 4 years later and desperately throw in teaching track classes. Two unemployed english teachers, three unemployed chemistry teachers, and a woman with a BS in mathematics who is currently teaching special education 5th graders in maryland. Besides the last, the rest are mostly all still living with their parents taking substitute teaching gigs. The Chemistry/Math people got hosed by not having any plan or intention of going further than a bachelors degree.
Dewie 13y ago
> Are you arguing that there exists a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospects based around a degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like? Being smart in one facet of life doesn't mean that you're necessarily smart in another one. And smart people can make stupid life-decisions.

by sk5t 13y ago

ritchiea 13y ago

You're assuming a lot here. A lot of intelligent people are told at a young age that college is an answer to their life aspirations. Just college. Not college and smart decisions about what to study and what habits to form and who to make friends with and what to do in the years in between. College. That's it. As a culture, we've told young people that. That's what I was told at least. I went to liberal arts school and studied psychology and I had no idea what would be necessary to get a job after graduation. In fact I assumed since I was in college and all these smart interesting adults around me seemed to think studying psychology or English was a normal decision that I wouldn't have to worry about practical things like finding a job afterwards because I was at a good college and after a good college those sort of things fall into place. Fortunately for me I am resourceful and patient with the idea that my education taught me to think and communicate well and that practical skills are things you can acquire on your own time and hard work. But a lot of teenagers are told college alone is an answer. And young people are naive. It is a problem with how we guide young people through their lives not a problem with them not understanding the world.

scarmig 13y ago

Yes. Simple-minded is an obnoxious word; brainwashed gets closer to it but implies too much a malevolent force at work. Cold statistics are one thing, but everyone has trouble actually chewing them over when every part of your environment is telling you "all you need to do is go to college, and everything will work out fine." If you know the ins and outs of how post-college employment works, you're working from a position of stark informational privilege compared to someone who doesn't. The people who succeed as English majors are much louder than the large majority who don't, and the people selling the English majors certainly aren't telling them they have a decent chance of ending up immiserated. If you genuinely enjoy English literature and writing, it's easy to fall into that trap. Many people here majored in CS, and that's awesome and has worked out well for them. But I would also take a gander that, going into college, those people weren't blank slates who had no love of CS and just did a mechanical calculation as to what would generate the most time-discounted income years. They had worked with computers in the past and loved it. It's very easy to overlook how much emotional or arational factors plays into your own choices while condemning those whose arational choices end up tossing them into another bin. Obviously the choices people make aren't totally ignorant of economic factors, but they also aren't determined by them.

krakensden 13y ago

I am saying that there are lots and lots of well meaning authority figures who will look 17 year-olds in the eye and tell them they should just get a degree, and worry about money later. I believe that they do this because high minded nostalgic nonsense like the linked article is published on a regular basis, every year, forever, drumming that idea home.

Crake 13y ago

I have met a LOT of people who thought that their degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like was going to get them a $60,000/year job fresh out of school. Heck, even some of the artists I know expected to be able to pay off their $80,000 in student loans with their art degree. Now they sit around their parents house whenever they're not at their part time retail job and complain about how "the economy" screwed them over.

jlgreco 13y ago

> a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospects based around a degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like? There is a metric fuck-ton of people who get into college and have no idea what they got into college for. That's what happens when you tell entire generations of 18-year-olds that merely having a college degree is the important part, and that they must have a college degree. Counting them off in my head about half the people I went to highschool with (and kept in touch with) picked majors based on what interested them most, only to start panicing 3 to 4 years later and desperately throw in teaching track classes. Two unemployed english teachers, three unemployed chemistry teachers, and a woman with a BS in mathematics who is currently teaching special education 5th graders in maryland. Besides the last, the rest are mostly all still living with their parents taking substitute teaching gigs. The Chemistry/Math people got hosed by not having any plan or intention of going further than a bachelors degree.

Dewie 13y ago

> Are you arguing that there exists a class of people smart enough to gain admission into and pay for college, yet too simpleminded to assess the hazy job prospects based around a degree in English, psychology, art history, and the like? Being smart in one facet of life doesn't mean that you're necessarily smart in another one. And smart people can make stupid life-decisions.