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I hate articles like this more than anything. If you really want to help product managers, do you have to spend the first half of the article telling them that
by austenallred 13y ago
I hate articles like this more than anything. If you really want to help product managers, do you have to spend the first half of the article telling them that you're so much more important than them? It takes two hands to clap.
- bdehaaff 13y agoI am not sure what your point is. Where in the blog post does it say that I am more important than they are? My career has been defined by being a PM and I have made all of those mistakes myself. In fact, our new company -- Aha.io -- is built for PMs.
- abbottry 13y ago"However, the reality is that you need engineering more than they need you." Whatever. I like the article, it makes some good points. It's hard to write an article explaining one side of a situation like this without 'taking sides'. I think the the PM role/title has become such a generic position that articles like this one are really taking a stab at anyone non-engineering, not that I am upset by it. As a startup founder, meshing technical teams and non-technical teams is extremely difficult to do. The work environments, thought processes, personalities, etc. are so different.
- bdehaaff 13y agoOk. Just a misunderstanding. Thanks for the comments.
- austenallred 13y agoI read that wrong - I thought you were an engineer complaining about PMs
- marshray 13y agoI see one paragraph that might fit that description. The one that starts with > However, the reality is that you need engineering more than they need you. And it's basically true. But I thought the line > You are overhead. Was too harsh and a slam. If the author really feels that's a notable point to make, it deserves a lot more explanation.
- bdehaaff 13y agoI have been a PM for most of my career. Lose engineering and you have no ongoing product, sales and you can not sell it, support and you can not service it. You get the picture. PM is not required for the basic operations of the business. Great PM is fundamental to success, but not to the day-to-day management of the business.
- mqzaidi 13y agoThere are 2 specialized positions (not roles) that I have been able to eliminate in a couple of successful projects (in a startup). These are Product Management and Quality Assurance. I think both the tasks are important enough to be entrusted to engineers, rather than getting someone else do it.
- ihsw 13y agoThere are advantages to getting someone else to do some of your work half as good, for example they can offload work for many people at the same time. It's good for morale and concentration.
- bdehaaff 13y agoHow did that work for you? Were the engineers assessing the overall market and competitive landscape and training the rest of the organization how to position and sell the product? Please tell us more about the project and how it went.
- ihsw 13y agoIt's harsh but it's quite true. Engineers (and other people!) would otherwise have to devote time and effort towards product goals and timeline management -- it would likely be only half as good as a full-time PM but they'd get it done without trouble. Product managers are an extension of people's normal employee workflows but expanded for coordination and communication, however there's nothing preventing the PM from exercising minimal responsibility on things like product design and whatnot.
- kabdib 13y agoThe best product managers I've worked with have been ex-engineers. I got technical specs that we could go back and forth on. Wonderful in-depth technical conversations. The worst ones: I wrote the specs. Instead of talking about technical stuff, I have to explain why something like "getting cache coherency right" is going to cost three or four days, and that no, I can't go to another scheduling meeting right now, didn't we have one yesterday? The best: Shields. The worst: "Why isn't that bug fixed? I'm going to call a meeting about that bug at 4:00, and I want it fixed by 5:00" [seriously. this happened]
- adamrubin 13y agoI have two hands to clap with. Does that mean I can fire the PM? :)
- bdehaaff 13y agoIf you are an engineer and don't trust the PM, you probably already have effectively "fired" him/her or at a minimum made life miserable? True?