6 ms·

The key difference in this case is that the information is flowing not directly to the foreign governments themselves, as in past cases, but rather to independe

The key difference in this case is that the information is flowing not directly to the foreign governments themselves, as in past cases, but rather to independent journalist organizations, so that the information can be known to everyone, both world governments and their citizens, equally.

samstave 13y ago
And this is precisely what makes this guy a patriotic civil disobedient and NOT a traitor, spy or criminal.
codex 13y ago
In the past Snowden has leaked to journalists, but what happens in the following scenario? Russia: "Snowden, the U.S. has requested that we detain you. We could hand your over to the U.S., but we'd be happy to offer you political asylyum here, or we could let you leave for Ecuador in a few hours and tell the U.S. we couldn't find you in time." Snowden: "I'd like to leave for Ecuador, please." Russia: "Well, then, all you have to do is tell us everything you know about programs X, Y, and Z. We're very interested in these programs, and anything you can tell us about U.S. surveillance of Russian government and military activities." Snowden: "I don't know anything about those." Russia: "Well, OK, I guess it's prison for you then." Snowden: "No, wait--I'll tell you everything I know." And boom: intelligence jackpot for Russia.
- montecarl 13y ago
  I think that most of what he has said so far has been corroborated. He has done enough to raise awareness of the issues that we know to be true. He should do whatever he needs to remain safe.
- doe88 13y ago
  Or instead of pushing him to do whatever it takes to protect his own life which ultimately is a human reflex, the US Gov could have said: ok we acknowledge there is a problem with the data we gather, with the policies we enacted and with the way we informed the people, come back home we won't charge you for espionnage and we will listen to you to improve how we could protect the US without compromising privacy.
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    When did we decide that the national security programs of the United States should give a damn what a random 30 year old contractor thinks about them? This is risible. Who voted for Edward Snowden? What he has done is not confined to "whistleblowing", if indeed any of it is. He apparently stole massive amounts of classified information, much of it on programs that by any reasonable definition are legitimate, albeit potentially embarrassing. He's now flying around from one U.S. strategic competitor to another, apparently unconcerned that what he stole could end up in the hands of those who do not wish the U.S. well. Feel free to describe him as being a hero to the world or whatever, but his protestations to have done all of this for love of country are starting to ring quite hollow.
    - kinghajj 13y ago
      He loves his country, but not his government. Big difference.
      - twoodfin 13y ago
        Out of curiosity, is there any classified information he could have turned over (intentionally or otherwise) to the Russians that would make you reconsider the wisdom of his decisions? What if one of those laptops has the names of undercover agents on it? I'm not saying it does, I'm just trying to understand the scope of your argument.
        kinghajj 13y ago
        This sums up my position. http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1gvd45/z/caobk8t http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1gvd45/z/caobk8t
        twoodfin 13y ago
        Well, OK, then. Snowden is rightfully a hero to your ideology. But I think anyone who's read history can argue that the institutions that currently "run the world" are among the most beneficial to mankind ever to emerge. They're not perfect, but we should think twice before tearing them down.
flatline 13y ago
Snowden himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a foreign entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for asylum? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his leaked information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his actions to make sure the truth would out? I certainly understand him fleeing but it severely jeopardizes any further leaks. He has made it much easier for the Obama administration to discredit damaging information rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.
- codex 13y ago
  Indeed--at this point he must be conservatively considered a de facto agent of a foreign government.
  - jtmcmc 13y ago
    Wow this is a crazy sentence.
- kinghajj 13y ago
  We can't verify the authenticity of any documents, but we also have no reason to believe that they are contaminated or sourced from foreign governments, at least not yet. And did he ever say he would "face the consequences?" The interviews I watched indicated that he felt he could not receive a fair trial in the US, which is why he felt the need to flee.
- thezilch 13y ago
  Obama himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a secret entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for fame? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his promises to make sure the States are governed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I certainly understand him fleeing his promises, but it severely jeopardizes any further trust he can lead the States and a World power. He has made it much easier for the public to discredit all information he parrots from his pulpit rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.

samstave 13y ago

And this is precisely what makes this guy a patriotic civil disobedient and NOT a traitor, spy or criminal.

codex 13y ago

In the past Snowden has leaked to journalists, but what happens in the following scenario? Russia: "Snowden, the U.S. has requested that we detain you. We could hand your over to the U.S., but we'd be happy to offer you political asylyum here, or we could let you leave for Ecuador in a few hours and tell the U.S. we couldn't find you in time." Snowden: "I'd like to leave for Ecuador, please." Russia: "Well, then, all you have to do is tell us everything you know about programs X, Y, and Z. We're very interested in these programs, and anything you can tell us about U.S. surveillance of Russian government and military activities." Snowden: "I don't know anything about those." Russia: "Well, OK, I guess it's prison for you then." Snowden: "No, wait--I'll tell you everything I know." And boom: intelligence jackpot for Russia.

montecarl 13y ago
I think that most of what he has said so far has been corroborated. He has done enough to raise awareness of the issues that we know to be true. He should do whatever he needs to remain safe.
doe88 13y ago
Or instead of pushing him to do whatever it takes to protect his own life which ultimately is a human reflex, the US Gov could have said: ok we acknowledge there is a problem with the data we gather, with the policies we enacted and with the way we informed the people, come back home we won't charge you for espionnage and we will listen to you to improve how we could protect the US without compromising privacy.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  When did we decide that the national security programs of the United States should give a damn what a random 30 year old contractor thinks about them? This is risible. Who voted for Edward Snowden? What he has done is not confined to "whistleblowing", if indeed any of it is. He apparently stole massive amounts of classified information, much of it on programs that by any reasonable definition are legitimate, albeit potentially embarrassing. He's now flying around from one U.S. strategic competitor to another, apparently unconcerned that what he stole could end up in the hands of those who do not wish the U.S. well. Feel free to describe him as being a hero to the world or whatever, but his protestations to have done all of this for love of country are starting to ring quite hollow.
  - kinghajj 13y ago
    He loves his country, but not his government. Big difference.
    - twoodfin 13y ago
      Out of curiosity, is there any classified information he could have turned over (intentionally or otherwise) to the Russians that would make you reconsider the wisdom of his decisions? What if one of those laptops has the names of undercover agents on it? I'm not saying it does, I'm just trying to understand the scope of your argument.
      - kinghajj 13y ago
        This sums up my position. http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1gvd45/z/caobk8t http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1gvd45/z/caobk8t
        twoodfin 13y ago
        Well, OK, then. Snowden is rightfully a hero to your ideology. But I think anyone who's read history can argue that the institutions that currently "run the world" are among the most beneficial to mankind ever to emerge. They're not perfect, but we should think twice before tearing them down.

flatline 13y ago

Snowden himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a foreign entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for asylum? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his leaked information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his actions to make sure the truth would out? I certainly understand him fleeing but it severely jeopardizes any further leaks. He has made it much easier for the Obama administration to discredit damaging information rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.

codex 13y ago
Indeed--at this point he must be conservatively considered a de facto agent of a foreign government.
- jtmcmc 13y ago
  Wow this is a crazy sentence.
kinghajj 13y ago
We can't verify the authenticity of any documents, but we also have no reason to believe that they are contaminated or sourced from foreign governments, at least not yet. And did he ever say he would "face the consequences?" The interviews I watched indicated that he felt he could not receive a fair trial in the US, which is why he felt the need to flee.
thezilch 13y ago
Obama himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a secret entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for fame? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his promises to make sure the States are governed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I certainly understand him fleeing his promises, but it severely jeopardizes any further trust he can lead the States and a World power. He has made it much easier for the public to discredit all information he parrots from his pulpit rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.