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Snowden's choice of helper countries is a national security risk to the United States. Here you have someone in possession of (still undisclosed) state secrets

by codex 13y ago

Snowden's choice of helper countries is a national security risk to the United States. Here you have someone in possession of (still undisclosed) state secrets from his work at the NSA, and who needs help from a foreign government. That's the very definition of compromised. What is he going to trade for protection? More classified information, of course--possibly much more sensitive information than the existence of programs like PRISM, which foreign spy agencies have likely known about for years. He has national security information, foreign governments want it, and they eventually will get it. This intel will eventually flow to China and/or Russia, where it will remain secret and used against the United States.

kinghajj 13y ago
The key difference in this case is that the information is flowing not directly to the foreign governments themselves, as in past cases, but rather to independent journalist organizations, so that the information can be known to everyone, both world governments and their citizens, equally.
- samstave 13y ago
  And this is precisely what makes this guy a patriotic civil disobedient and NOT a traitor, spy or criminal.
- codex 13y ago
  In the past Snowden has leaked to journalists, but what happens in the following scenario? Russia: "Snowden, the U.S. has requested that we detain you. We could hand your over to the U.S., but we'd be happy to offer you political asylyum here, or we could let you leave for Ecuador in a few hours and tell the U.S. we couldn't find you in time." Snowden: "I'd like to leave for Ecuador, please." Russia: "Well, then, all you have to do is tell us everything you know about programs X, Y, and Z. We're very interested in these programs, and anything you can tell us about U.S. surveillance of Russian government and military activities." Snowden: "I don't know anything about those." Russia: "Well, OK, I guess it's prison for you then." Snowden: "No, wait--I'll tell you everything I know." And boom: intelligence jackpot for Russia.
  - montecarl 13y ago
    I think that most of what he has said so far has been corroborated. He has done enough to raise awareness of the issues that we know to be true. He should do whatever he needs to remain safe.
  - doe88 13y ago
    Or instead of pushing him to do whatever it takes to protect his own life which ultimately is a human reflex, the US Gov could have said: ok we acknowledge there is a problem with the data we gather, with the policies we enacted and with the way we informed the people, come back home we won't charge you for espionnage and we will listen to you to improve how we could protect the US without compromising privacy.
    - twoodfin 13y ago
      When did we decide that the national security programs of the United States should give a damn what a random 30 year old contractor thinks about them? This is risible. Who voted for Edward Snowden? What he has done is not confined to "whistleblowing", if indeed any of it is. He apparently stole massive amounts of classified information, much of it on programs that by any reasonable definition are legitimate, albeit potentially embarrassing. He's now flying around from one U.S. strategic competitor to another, apparently unconcerned that what he stole could end up in the hands of those who do not wish the U.S. well. Feel free to describe him as being a hero to the world or whatever, but his protestations to have done all of this for love of country are starting to ring quite hollow.
      - kinghajj 13y ago
        He loves his country, but not his government. Big difference.
        twoodfin 13y ago
        Out of curiosity, is there any classified information he could have turned over (intentionally or otherwise) to the Russians that would make you reconsider the wisdom of his decisions? What if one of those laptops has the names of undercover agents on it? I'm not saying it does, I'm just trying to understand the scope of your argument.
- flatline 13y ago
  Snowden himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a foreign entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for asylum? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his leaked information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his actions to make sure the truth would out? I certainly understand him fleeing but it severely jeopardizes any further leaks. He has made it much easier for the Obama administration to discredit damaging information rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.
  - codex 13y ago
    Indeed--at this point he must be conservatively considered a de facto agent of a foreign government.
    - jtmcmc 13y ago
      Wow this is a crazy sentence.
  - kinghajj 13y ago
    We can't verify the authenticity of any documents, but we also have no reason to believe that they are contaminated or sourced from foreign governments, at least not yet. And did he ever say he would "face the consequences?" The interviews I watched indicated that he felt he could not receive a fair trial in the US, which is why he felt the need to flee.
  - thezilch 13y ago
    Obama himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a secret entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for fame? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his promises to make sure the States are governed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I certainly understand him fleeing his promises, but it severely jeopardizes any further trust he can lead the States and a World power. He has made it much easier for the public to discredit all information he parrots from his pulpit rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.
blhack 13y ago
This is a very jingoistic mentality. Perhaps Ecuador cares about human rights?
- Kylekramer 13y ago
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19431682 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19431682
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- brown9-2 13y ago
  I doubt that his why he has chosen Ecuador as a place of asylum. It's because they won't respond to an extradition request. http://www.cpj.org/blog/2013/06/new-ecuadoran-legislation-seen-as-gag-law-to-muzzl.php http://www.cpj.org/blog/2013/06/new-ecuadoran-legislation-se...
  - cpursley 13y ago
    Nor does Russia, which seems like the most logical choice.
    - brown9-2 13y ago
      Perhaps. The chances of being used as a pawn seem much higher in Russia.
      - cpursley 13y ago
        True, but less chance of being taken out.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    He's chosen Ecuador because they've already granted asylum to Assange.
- mbateman 13y ago
lmm 13y ago
As others have said, the US placed him in that position themselves. Why should he owe any loyalty to a country and a government that wants to detain and perhaps torture or even execute him? Loyalty to humanity as a whole should (and seemingly has, in his case) override more parochial considerations. The "national security" of the US nation is far less important than the individual humans who live in it, and Snowden has done the latter a great service.
Ultron 13y ago
Snowden has awakened the whole world to the surveillance leviathan that is the US. The US have been the one world government for awhile now, it's just that most people (and countries) refused to see it until now. The C&D to the Bitcoins Foundation is no surprise either. It's in the cross hairs of the US government and it can't be allowed to exist. Read the book Cypherpunks and you'll find out why. I'm sure those in power know the book well.

by codex 13y ago

kinghajj 13y ago

The key difference in this case is that the information is flowing not directly to the foreign governments themselves, as in past cases, but rather to independent journalist organizations, so that the information can be known to everyone, both world governments and their citizens, equally.

samstave 13y ago
And this is precisely what makes this guy a patriotic civil disobedient and NOT a traitor, spy or criminal.
codex 13y ago
In the past Snowden has leaked to journalists, but what happens in the following scenario? Russia: "Snowden, the U.S. has requested that we detain you. We could hand your over to the U.S., but we'd be happy to offer you political asylyum here, or we could let you leave for Ecuador in a few hours and tell the U.S. we couldn't find you in time." Snowden: "I'd like to leave for Ecuador, please." Russia: "Well, then, all you have to do is tell us everything you know about programs X, Y, and Z. We're very interested in these programs, and anything you can tell us about U.S. surveillance of Russian government and military activities." Snowden: "I don't know anything about those." Russia: "Well, OK, I guess it's prison for you then." Snowden: "No, wait--I'll tell you everything I know." And boom: intelligence jackpot for Russia.
- montecarl 13y ago
  I think that most of what he has said so far has been corroborated. He has done enough to raise awareness of the issues that we know to be true. He should do whatever he needs to remain safe.
- doe88 13y ago
  Or instead of pushing him to do whatever it takes to protect his own life which ultimately is a human reflex, the US Gov could have said: ok we acknowledge there is a problem with the data we gather, with the policies we enacted and with the way we informed the people, come back home we won't charge you for espionnage and we will listen to you to improve how we could protect the US without compromising privacy.
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    When did we decide that the national security programs of the United States should give a damn what a random 30 year old contractor thinks about them? This is risible. Who voted for Edward Snowden? What he has done is not confined to "whistleblowing", if indeed any of it is. He apparently stole massive amounts of classified information, much of it on programs that by any reasonable definition are legitimate, albeit potentially embarrassing. He's now flying around from one U.S. strategic competitor to another, apparently unconcerned that what he stole could end up in the hands of those who do not wish the U.S. well. Feel free to describe him as being a hero to the world or whatever, but his protestations to have done all of this for love of country are starting to ring quite hollow.
    - kinghajj 13y ago
      He loves his country, but not his government. Big difference.
      - twoodfin 13y ago
        Out of curiosity, is there any classified information he could have turned over (intentionally or otherwise) to the Russians that would make you reconsider the wisdom of his decisions? What if one of those laptops has the names of undercover agents on it? I'm not saying it does, I'm just trying to understand the scope of your argument.
flatline 13y ago
Snowden himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a foreign entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for asylum? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his leaked information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his actions to make sure the truth would out? I certainly understand him fleeing but it severely jeopardizes any further leaks. He has made it much easier for the Obama administration to discredit damaging information rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.
- codex 13y ago
  Indeed--at this point he must be conservatively considered a de facto agent of a foreign government.
  - jtmcmc 13y ago
    Wow this is a crazy sentence.
- kinghajj 13y ago
  We can't verify the authenticity of any documents, but we also have no reason to believe that they are contaminated or sourced from foreign governments, at least not yet. And did he ever say he would "face the consequences?" The interviews I watched indicated that he felt he could not receive a fair trial in the US, which is why he felt the need to flee.
- thezilch 13y ago
  Obama himself is now compromised. How do we know that what he releases to the press is factual, and not tampered by a secret entity who received the real information and his cooperation in exchange for fame? I think this pretty well destroys the credibility of his information from this point forward. What happened to him "facing the consequences" of his promises to make sure the States are governed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights? I certainly understand him fleeing his promises, but it severely jeopardizes any further trust he can lead the States and a World power. He has made it much easier for the public to discredit all information he parrots from his pulpit rather than being forced to face it as they have been doing.

blhack 13y ago

This is a very jingoistic mentality. Perhaps Ecuador cares about human rights?

Kylekramer 13y ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19431682 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19431682
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
brown9-2 13y ago
I doubt that his why he has chosen Ecuador as a place of asylum. It's because they won't respond to an extradition request. http://www.cpj.org/blog/2013/06/new-ecuadoran-legislation-seen-as-gag-law-to-muzzl.php http://www.cpj.org/blog/2013/06/new-ecuadoran-legislation-se...
- cpursley 13y ago
  Nor does Russia, which seems like the most logical choice.
  - brown9-2 13y ago
    Perhaps. The chances of being used as a pawn seem much higher in Russia.
    - cpursley 13y ago
      True, but less chance of being taken out.
- rdouble 13y ago
  He's chosen Ecuador because they've already granted asylum to Assange.
mbateman 13y ago

lmm 13y ago

As others have said, the US placed him in that position themselves. Why should he owe any loyalty to a country and a government that wants to detain and perhaps torture or even execute him? Loyalty to humanity as a whole should (and seemingly has, in his case) override more parochial considerations. The "national security" of the US nation is far less important than the individual humans who live in it, and Snowden has done the latter a great service.

Ultron 13y ago

Snowden has awakened the whole world to the surveillance leviathan that is the US. The US have been the one world government for awhile now, it's just that most people (and countries) refused to see it until now. The C&D to the Bitcoins Foundation is no surprise either. It's in the cross hairs of the US government and it can't be allowed to exist. Read the book Cypherpunks and you'll find out why. I'm sure those in power know the book well.