4 ms·

Solutions please. Rhetoric is easy.

by Sven7 13y ago

tommi 13y ago
The solution is to act nicer now and in the future. The solution is not act in more terrifying ways, both home and abroad. Don't torture and murder people.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  I think this country needs to really (re-)internalize the importance of popular support, and the difficulty of fooling enough of the people enough of the time.
johnrob 13y ago
You've unjustifiably framed the problem as preventing terrorist attacks. There's no evidence indicating that is our biggest problem.
- Sven7 13y ago
  :) unjustifiable huh? Feels like I am in an evangelical church questioning god.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Again with the unintended irony. If you think it's justifiable, justify it.
  - smsm42 13y ago
    You're not questioning, you're proclaiming a statement which has no proof but the proclaiming itself. Following your metaphor, you should be feeling like you're in physics lab proclaiming the reason for gravity is God's will. Don't be surprised somebody would ask for some proof to that and for some explanation about how one could verify that.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    No you are in a place that is full with people with very good mathematical and statistical skills that can call you out on the bullshit that is the treat of terrorist attacks and can detach themselves from the primal emotional reaction.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
Rhetoric is easy. Ironically, that itself is also rhetoric. You didn't even address anything I said, can not point what makes what I said mere rhetoric either, but just dismissed it all with that statement. So maybe even if there are solutions, even if they get posted in plain sight of you; as long as you're trying hard to not see them, you won't. What you're really saying is "give me solutions which keep me and my current outlook intact", and I don't see a reason to automatically assume that's possible or desirable. Solutions please. The solution to what, exactly? To drummed up fear? To hypocrisy and double standards? That's all just in the mind, and as Bill Hicks said, I recommend sit-ups. Or do you mean the fires that in large parts don't just get fueled, but were started by the very people who claim to protect from them? from your other post: The lack of solutions itself is a sign that no one has anything better to offer than what the NSA is currently upto. Does this not also apply to your comments? Why aren't you making the comments you want to see, instead of "crying" about the problems with the discussion? Because it's not that easy, is it? Also, this is hardly an issue everybody is completely informed about, much less in the mainstream. Talking "solutions" now, instead of simply talking and see where that leads, strikes me as premature. You can't change a century of statism and the shrinking of the individual overnight with a "solution". We need to evolve out of consumerism and passivitiy, out of confusing symbols and things, not just consume the right change or come up with the correct symbol. We need to overcome atomization and rediscover solidarity instead of better skinner boxes, and that may take more than a generation even. If it is something you or I can fully experience in our lifetime, it is not aiming high enough IMHO. If it is something that can be explained to someone without all of attention span, intellectual honesty and passion, it is not worth a second thought. And in a process that involves all people on the planet, I would not ever hold my breath to ever have a full explanation of the full picture, or expect a full map before I even do one step. But I can get to know myself and my immediate surroundings, see how I feel about each and act on those. To me that is infinitely better than a full, but false explanation of how the world is, which is exactly what most people operate on, stories that cease to exist the moment they're no longer told. This leads to incredibly insecure people, who go insane as soon as the jukebox who tells them who they are goes silent, which in turn leads to all sorts of nonsense. As Voltaire said, those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. Oh, the irony of complaining about "rhetoric" and then expecting a "solution, pronto". My "solution" would be, hmmm, we all read and implement the writings of Erich Fromm and Marcus Aurelius, get to know ourselves, all 7 billion of us. Then we have a second round of discussions. If you don't like it, give me a better one.

Solutions please. Rhetoric is easy.

by Sven7 13y ago

Solutions please. Rhetoric is easy.

tommi 13y ago

The solution is to act nicer now and in the future. The solution is not act in more terrifying ways, both home and abroad. Don't torture and murder people.

dllthomas 13y ago
I think this country needs to really (re-)internalize the importance of popular support, and the difficulty of fooling enough of the people enough of the time.

johnrob 13y ago

You've unjustifiably framed the problem as preventing terrorist attacks. There's no evidence indicating that is our biggest problem.

Sven7 13y ago
:) unjustifiable huh? Feels like I am in an evangelical church questioning god.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Again with the unintended irony. If you think it's justifiable, justify it.
- smsm42 13y ago
  You're not questioning, you're proclaiming a statement which has no proof but the proclaiming itself. Following your metaphor, you should be feeling like you're in physics lab proclaiming the reason for gravity is God's will. Don't be surprised somebody would ask for some proof to that and for some explanation about how one could verify that.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  No you are in a place that is full with people with very good mathematical and statistical skills that can call you out on the bullshit that is the treat of terrorist attacks and can detach themselves from the primal emotional reaction.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

Rhetoric is easy. Ironically, that itself is also rhetoric. You didn't even address anything I said, can not point what makes what I said mere rhetoric either, but just dismissed it all with that statement. So maybe even if there are solutions, even if they get posted in plain sight of you; as long as you're trying hard to not see them, you won't. What you're really saying is "give me solutions which keep me and my current outlook intact", and I don't see a reason to automatically assume that's possible or desirable. Solutions please. The solution to what, exactly? To drummed up fear? To hypocrisy and double standards? That's all just in the mind, and as Bill Hicks said, I recommend sit-ups. Or do you mean the fires that in large parts don't just get fueled, but were started by the very people who claim to protect from them? from your other post: The lack of solutions itself is a sign that no one has anything better to offer than what the NSA is currently upto. Does this not also apply to your comments? Why aren't you making the comments you want to see, instead of "crying" about the problems with the discussion? Because it's not that easy, is it? Also, this is hardly an issue everybody is completely informed about, much less in the mainstream. Talking "solutions" now, instead of simply talking and see where that leads, strikes me as premature. You can't change a century of statism and the shrinking of the individual overnight with a "solution". We need to evolve out of consumerism and passivitiy, out of confusing symbols and things, not just consume the right change or come up with the correct symbol. We need to overcome atomization and rediscover solidarity instead of better skinner boxes, and that may take more than a generation even. If it is something you or I can fully experience in our lifetime, it is not aiming high enough IMHO. If it is something that can be explained to someone without all of attention span, intellectual honesty and passion, it is not worth a second thought. And in a process that involves all people on the planet, I would not ever hold my breath to ever have a full explanation of the full picture, or expect a full map before I even do one step. But I can get to know myself and my immediate surroundings, see how I feel about each and act on those. To me that is infinitely better than a full, but false explanation of how the world is, which is exactly what most people operate on, stories that cease to exist the moment they're no longer told. This leads to incredibly insecure people, who go insane as soon as the jukebox who tells them who they are goes silent, which in turn leads to all sorts of nonsense. As Voltaire said, those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. Oh, the irony of complaining about "rhetoric" and then expecting a "solution, pronto". My "solution" would be, hmmm, we all read and implement the writings of Erich Fromm and Marcus Aurelius, get to know ourselves, all 7 billion of us. Then we have a second round of discussions. If you don't like it, give me a better one.