4 ms·

> His countries of aid so far (China, Russia, possibly Cuba) have a similarly poor record. How poor is their record (including foreign policy) compared with th

by Ihmahr 13y ago

> His countries of aid so far (China, Russia, possibly Cuba) have a similarly poor record. How poor is their record (including foreign policy) compared with the US?

wazoox 13y ago
Honestly, China and Russia fare extremely bad. Cuba has been better these last few years, but still is a single party undemocratic regime. Venezuela OTOH seems quite reasonable.
- pmelendez 13y ago
  "Venezuela OTOH seems quite reasonable." Venezuelan here, and I can tell you that there is nothing reasonable about Venezuela these days. The big scandal here is that USA citizens had been monitored without a warrant but in Venezuela government agencies had been doing that for years and without any shame. They had shown in national TV, audio recordings of phone conversations just to embarrass people that are no pro-government (nothing relating to felonies or crimes, just to make fun of them). So it is ironic indeed.
  - wazoox 13y ago
    This doesn't seem worse than what's happening in the USA (monitoring... just about everybody; keeping hundreds of political prisoners at Gitmo for 12 years and counting) or Europe (UK government spying on... just everyone; or the countless robberies and abuse of power of Sarkozy, Berlusconi and friends).
    - pmelendez 13y ago
      It is worse in the sense that the have no shame to hide it, at least in the US was a secret. On the other hand, it is ironic to do what he did and then escape to a country where freedom conditions are way worse.
cmsmith 13y ago
Poor. [1, 2] Pretty much everything bad that the US does, these countries do worse by an order of magnitude. We use hyperbole to compare Snowden to political prisoners in these countries, but I imagine that idea would seem pretty ridiculous to a real political prisoner in China or NK or Russia. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Democracy_Index&oldid=547250197#Democracy_index_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Democracy_Index&ol... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
Ihmahr 13y ago
I see reactions about (horrific!) internal problems of these countries, but does that begin to compare to 250.000 deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq?

by Ihmahr 13y ago

> His countries of aid so far (China, Russia, possibly Cuba) have a similarly poor record. How poor is their record (including foreign policy) compared with the US?

wazoox 13y ago

Honestly, China and Russia fare extremely bad. Cuba has been better these last few years, but still is a single party undemocratic regime. Venezuela OTOH seems quite reasonable.

pmelendez 13y ago
"Venezuela OTOH seems quite reasonable." Venezuelan here, and I can tell you that there is nothing reasonable about Venezuela these days. The big scandal here is that USA citizens had been monitored without a warrant but in Venezuela government agencies had been doing that for years and without any shame. They had shown in national TV, audio recordings of phone conversations just to embarrass people that are no pro-government (nothing relating to felonies or crimes, just to make fun of them). So it is ironic indeed.
- wazoox 13y ago
  This doesn't seem worse than what's happening in the USA (monitoring... just about everybody; keeping hundreds of political prisoners at Gitmo for 12 years and counting) or Europe (UK government spying on... just everyone; or the countless robberies and abuse of power of Sarkozy, Berlusconi and friends).
  - pmelendez 13y ago
    It is worse in the sense that the have no shame to hide it, at least in the US was a secret. On the other hand, it is ironic to do what he did and then escape to a country where freedom conditions are way worse.

cmsmith 13y ago

Poor. [1, 2] Pretty much everything bad that the US does, these countries do worse by an order of magnitude. We use hyperbole to compare Snowden to political prisoners in these countries, but I imagine that idea would seem pretty ridiculous to a real political prisoner in China or NK or Russia. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Democracy_Index&oldid=547250197#Democracy_index_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Democracy_Index&ol... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

Ihmahr 13y ago

I see reactions about (horrific!) internal problems of these countries, but does that begin to compare to 250.000 deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq?