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Ecuador has received asylum request from NSA leaker Snowden
- throwawayyyz 13y agoBad idea. I personally know a guy who was illegally kidnapped by the US government from Ecuador with the assistance of local police. Snowden will regret this decision.
- werid 13y agoMossad kidnapped Vanunu from Italy. With or without local help, you can be kidnapped anywhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
- tzury 13y ago1986 is not 2013. The fact this is not going off the top news makes it much harder - in all aspects (the tactic operation is just one aspect to such act).
- grey-area 13y agoOsama Nasr was abducted by the US from Milan, Italy in 2003 without permission or cooperation from the Italian government and tortured in Egypt. Illegal abduction can happen anywhere. I agree publicity would make it harder, but the US has shown willingness to act extra-legally and ignore the fallout even from allies (Pakistan, Italy etc), so Snowden is probably not safe anywhere, just a bit safer for longer in a country which opposes the US. In his words: You can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk because they're such powerful adversaries. No one can meaningfully oppose them. If they want to get you, they'll get you in time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Mustafa_Osama_Nasr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Mustafa_Osama_Nasr
- mike_esspe 13y agohttp://www.richardsilverstein.com/2011/03/03/mossad-kidnaps-gazan-engineer-in-ukraine-now-held-incommunicado-in-israeli-prison/ http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2011/03/03/mossad-kidnaps-... This happened just two years ago. Palestinian engineer, traveling in Ukraine, was captured by unknown people, and was found in Israel prison week later.
- threeseed 13y agoBut it will go off the top news. The US government has all the time in the world and in months/years from now when nobody remembers his name there will be an opportunity for a extradition to be done quietly.
- goldfeld 13y agoThat's my thought . But I guess there's a way for him in working together with Assange from now on, thus keeping a high profile.
- MattDL 13y agoDidn't they have to lure him away from the UK to be in a position to abduct him in the first place though? So really it depends where you are and what you're willing to do.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pvnick 13y agoI'd like to see them try, considering the high-profile nature of this specific case. It would severely harm their position diplomatically.
- kinghajj 13y agoI'm not trusting any "sources" that claim to know his final destination, as various ones have claimed Venezuela, Norway, and now Ecuador. I guess we'll have to wait a couple days to know what'll really happen.
- 1337biz 13y agoJust wondering: What would be the appeals process if he were actually kidnapped by the US government in a foreign country. Is there some court by the United Nations that is mediating such cases even if there is an extreme power imbalance between both nations?
- dragonwriter 13y ago> Just wondering: What would be the appeals process if he were actually kidnapped by the US government in a foreign country. The appeals process that would go through a system with the power to matter would be through the US courts and would almost certainly be unsuccessful, see U.S. v. Alvarez-Machain, 504 US 655 (1992) [1]. > Is there some court by the United Nations that is mediating such cases even if there is an extreme power imbalance between both nations? A case could be filed in the International Court of Justice by the offended country against the US alleging violation of a treaty or some other element of international law within the competence of the Court, but for consideration of how much that would be worth even if the offended country won the case, consider Nicaragua v. United States [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States
- ngoel36 13y agoOne would think that he would have planned this shit out...
- aspensmonster 13y agoI'm sure he did. But plans are just that. They're dependent on the moves of other players that you typically have no control over and can only imperfectly guess at.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoThe best laid plans and all that... Maybe this is the plan. It's not as though you get to practice at this.
- lhnz 13y agoCan you give us more information? This sounds like bullshit.
- throwawayyyz 13y agoTwo weeks ago everything Snowden said would have sounded like bullshit. There are plenty of things we are not aware of. This kidnapping that I mentioned just happens to be something I was physically present to witness. However, I'm not going to provide further details. Feel free to move on with your day and ignore my comment.
- lhnz 13y agoThat was incredibly unconvincing. You were physically present for a kidnapping? Yep, I'm moving on with my day...
- lawnchair_larry 13y agoSounds exactly like what Sweden did to Gottfrid Svartholm Warg in Cambodia a few months ago.
- sho_hn 13y agoFirst Assange and now Snowden. One wonders when Ecuador's capacity to act in this role would run out.
- cdash 13y agoWhy should it run out?
- samstave 13y agoIt would run out when they 'harbor' someone for whom the USG would have no qualms violating the Ecuadoran sovereignty to eliminate.
- malandrew 13y agoThat would seriously harm US relations with Mercosul and other Latin American countries. The US already has a poor track record in Latin America. Invading Ecuadorian sovereignty would basically turn Latin America into yet another region with strong Anti-American attitudes like the Middle East. I'm sure Europe would also heavily condemn such an action.
- brown9-2 13y agoHis safety in Ecuador seems highly dependent on the attitudes of the current ruling party/president. What happens if a more US-friendly group takes hold of power?
- general_failure 13y agoThat could happen with any country. Since we are arguing this way - Maybe the next US president has good will towards Snowden and he will come back home as a patriot.
- throwaway10001 13y agoI hope he has plan B, or starts planning it. Ecuador is a tiny country and can easily be influenced by USA once this government falls. In smaller countries when USA needs a favor, it "forgets" a few things their leader does when it comes to human rights, elections and so on.
- sudhirj 13y agohttp://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-Statement-On-Edward,253.html?updated http://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-Statement-On-Edward,253.html?... The Wikileaks statement has been updated to confirm this.
- return0 13y agoIt doesn't necessarily mean that he has to go to Ecuador, he can stay in the Ecuadorian Embassy in Moscow (if there is one). But, can he? He doesn't have a visa to exit the airport.
- dubfan 13y agoEcuador does indeed have an embassy in Moscow. http://embajada-ecuador.ru/ecuador/ http://embajada-ecuador.ru/ecuador/
- sold 13y agoReports say he used diplomatic cars [1] to avoid visa requirement. [1] https://twitter.com/NewsBreaker/status/348800297700835328 https://twitter.com/NewsBreaker/status/348800297700835328
- throwaway10001 13y agoIf Russia bent it's rules. Having been at many international airports, I can't see how a car entered that holding /transfer area. His passport has been cancelled but is there an international db to check valid vs non-valid ones? What if Russia made believe they never got the "Snowden's passport has been cancelled" memo?
- lmm 13y agoAIUI passport requirements are up to the receiving country. If Ecuador are willing to receive him then he can travel there (and travel through any number of airports on the way as long as he stays "skyside"), passport or no. Indeed the best policy for Russia and Snowden is probably for him to not legally enter Russia at all.
- Havoc 13y agoDamn - all these places seem to be leaking info like a sieve.
- codex 13y agoSnowden's choice of helper countries is a national security risk to the United States. Here you have someone in possession of (still undisclosed) state secrets from his work at the NSA, and who needs help from a foreign government. That's the very definition of compromised. What is he going to trade for protection? More classified information, of course--possibly much more sensitive information than the existence of programs like PRISM, which foreign spy agencies have likely known about for years. He has national security information, foreign governments want it, and they eventually will get it. This intel will eventually flow to China and/or Russia, where it will remain secret and used against the United States.
- kinghajj 13y agoThe key difference in this case is that the information is flowing not directly to the foreign governments themselves, as in past cases, but rather to independent journalist organizations, so that the information can be known to everyone, both world governments and their citizens, equally.
- samstave 13y agoAnd this is precisely what makes this guy a patriotic civil disobedient and NOT a traitor, spy or criminal.
- codex 13y agoIn the past Snowden has leaked to journalists, but what happens in the following scenario? Russia: "Snowden, the U.S. has requested that we detain you. We could hand your over to the U.S., but we'd be happy to offer you political asylyum here, or we could let you leave for Ecuador in a few hours and tell the U.S. we couldn't find you in time." Snowden: "I'd like to leave for Ecuador, please." Russia: "Well, then, all you have to do is tell us everything you know about programs X, Y, and Z. We're very interested in these programs, and anything you can tell us about U.S. surveillance of Russian government and military activities." Snowden: "I don't know anything about those." Russia: "Well, OK, I guess it's prison for you then." Snowden: "No, wait--I'll tell you everything I know." And boom: intelligence jackpot for Russia.
- nodata 13y agoThis is all one hell of a distraction from what the government did.
- jakejake 13y agoYea it's a pretty classic debate technique - http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.html#divert http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.html#divert It's also a great time for lawmakers to pass unrelated, controversial legislation while everyone's attention is elsewhere.
- eli 13y agoYou imply it's intentional. People (both "the media" as well as HN readers) are focusing on Snowden because it's much more exciting and interesting to read a real life spy thriller than discuss an NSA spying program that we all knew existed (at least in principle) for years.
- jakejake 13y agoI can't really argue with you, but I personally suspect it's a bit of both.
- moo 13y agoNews you can trust, with desk reporter Julian Assange, field reporter Edward Snowden. Today we give an update on John McCain's trip to Syria, with video of McCain's night feeding on human organs with his best buddy, opposition leader Khalid Al-Hamad. Yeah, I'm liking the new media.
- blasphemy 13y agoSounds like we've narrowed it down to Ecuador, Venezuela or Iceland. Maybe Snowden's strategy is to confuse everyone as to where he is headed (or is).
- ChuckMcM 13y agoWhat does Ecuador get out of offering him asylum? I could get Russia or China but don't see the appeal of Ecuador.
- eli 13y agoEcuador's President was very close to Hugo Chavez and his open hostility towards US influence in South America helped him consolidate power. It is politically beneficial for him to embarrass the US government and make them appear weak.