5 ms·

Snowden's flight from Moscow to Havana passes over US airspace.

67 points by teawithcarl 13y ago

mike_esspe 13y ago
Here is the map of SU150 (Sheremetyevo - Jose Marti) flight path on 22nd June: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130622/1005Z/UUEE/MUHA http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130622/1...
w1ntermute 13y ago
Can someone explain why Snowden is going this way instead of going over the Pacific to Venezuela?
- sp332 13y ago
  This way he can parachute out over Iceland :)
  - anonymfus 13y ago
    Relevant scene from animated Russian movie "Adventures of Captain Vrungel " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Captain_Vrungel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Captain_Vrungel ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLA7BBF44483CF238E&v=P0DK1LghwZc&t=404s http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLA7BBF44483CF238E&v=P0DK1...
- _ak 13y ago
  Lack of available flights? Flights from East Asia and Oceania to the Americas are relatively rare and expensive compared to going the other way via Europe.
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    Exactly There's probably zero flights that go from Asia to Venezuela directly. Maybe through Australia and Chile exists a possibility
    - rdouble 13y ago
      There aren't any direct flights from Moscow to Venezuela, either. He either has to stop somewhere in Europe or Miami.
      - raverbashing 13y ago
        It's longer through Asia. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SYD-SCL-CCS,HKG-DME-HAV-CCS http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SYD-SCL-CCS,HKG-DME-HAV-CCS There's of course SYD-LAX but due to the circumstances...
- 1337biz 13y ago
  Plus why didn't they charter a plane? I'm sure Russia has quite a few rusty Tupolevs standing around and pilots that can probably even fly blindfolded the route to Havana. But maybe the idea is some form of human-shield and protection against unhappy "accidents" by relying on regular passenger flights.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    The Pacific can be pretty stormy and also lonely this time of year. Plus, a plane with Snowden and a few "incidentals" is a easier to justify politically than Snowden and a hundred civilians from various countries. I mean, wouldn't that be what terrorists do?
  - danenania 13y ago
    This is a smart move. There is no way the US will use force against a passenger plane just to get Snowden, so the pilot can safely ignore any US demands and continue on to Havana regardless of air space and threats, though it will take guts. Perhaps there will be a last minute shift change and a GRU pilot will end up in the cockpit.
- WildUtah 13y ago
  There are only two commercial flights between Asia and Latin America. One flys between Mexico City and, on alternate trips, Shanghai or Tokyo. The other is between Dubai and Sāo Paulo. The Mexican flight crosses a lot of US airspace. Everything else requires stops in North America or Europe.
andr 13y ago
On June 20th, the flight did not pass through US territory: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130620/1005Z/UUEE/MUHA http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130620/1... Perhaps strings can be pulled so it takes the same route again.
- iaskwhy 13y ago
  Small trivia: that path goes close to the Azores where the USAF has an airbase.
  - andr 13y ago
    I'm sure this will not be a matter to be resolved by fighter jets. This is a regular commercial jet and if asked to land by air traffic control, it will land instead of going rogue. So as long as it stays off actual US airspace, it should be fine.
    - iaskwhy 13y ago
      I wasn't implying they would shot his plane. I could imagine the USAF "asking" the pilot to land on the airbase but I don't think any of these things will happen to him.
      - ibejoeb 13y ago
        The captain is not going to comply with such a request. An unscheduled landing is, if not illegal in a relevant jurisdiction, at least unnecessarily risky.
        foobarqux 13y ago
        It has happened before. I think one of the original digital cash (e-gold, digicash) executives was arrested this way but I can't find the story now.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
doktrin 13y ago
This strikes me as a non-issue. This case is far too high profile for the US to risk the diplomatic and PR fallout from forcing or otherwise coercing a commercial airliner to land unexpectedly.
- brudgers 13y ago
  And it's a Russian airline. Should there be a diplomatic incident, Russia has the means to carry out diplomacy by other means. A flight from Moscow was not chosen by lowest cost on Travelocity. Everyone is wearing big boy pants.

67 points by teawithcarl 13y ago

Here is the map of SU150 (Sheremetyevo - Jose Marti) flight path on 22nd June: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130622/1005Z/UUEE/MUHA http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130622/1...

w1ntermute 13y ago

Can someone explain why Snowden is going this way instead of going over the Pacific to Venezuela?

sp332 13y ago
This way he can parachute out over Iceland :)
- anonymfus 13y ago
  Relevant scene from animated Russian movie "Adventures of Captain Vrungel " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Captain_Vrungel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Captain_Vrungel ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLA7BBF44483CF238E&v=P0DK1LghwZc&t=404s http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLA7BBF44483CF238E&v=P0DK1...
_ak 13y ago
Lack of available flights? Flights from East Asia and Oceania to the Americas are relatively rare and expensive compared to going the other way via Europe.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  Exactly There's probably zero flights that go from Asia to Venezuela directly. Maybe through Australia and Chile exists a possibility
  - rdouble 13y ago
    There aren't any direct flights from Moscow to Venezuela, either. He either has to stop somewhere in Europe or Miami.
    - raverbashing 13y ago
      It's longer through Asia. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SYD-SCL-CCS,HKG-DME-HAV-CCS http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SYD-SCL-CCS,HKG-DME-HAV-CCS There's of course SYD-LAX but due to the circumstances...
1337biz 13y ago
Plus why didn't they charter a plane? I'm sure Russia has quite a few rusty Tupolevs standing around and pilots that can probably even fly blindfolded the route to Havana. But maybe the idea is some form of human-shield and protection against unhappy "accidents" by relying on regular passenger flights.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  The Pacific can be pretty stormy and also lonely this time of year. Plus, a plane with Snowden and a few "incidentals" is a easier to justify politically than Snowden and a hundred civilians from various countries. I mean, wouldn't that be what terrorists do?
- danenania 13y ago
  This is a smart move. There is no way the US will use force against a passenger plane just to get Snowden, so the pilot can safely ignore any US demands and continue on to Havana regardless of air space and threats, though it will take guts. Perhaps there will be a last minute shift change and a GRU pilot will end up in the cockpit.
WildUtah 13y ago
There are only two commercial flights between Asia and Latin America. One flys between Mexico City and, on alternate trips, Shanghai or Tokyo. The other is between Dubai and Sāo Paulo. The Mexican flight crosses a lot of US airspace. Everything else requires stops in North America or Europe.

andr 13y ago

On June 20th, the flight did not pass through US territory: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130620/1005Z/UUEE/MUHA http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL150/history/20130620/1... Perhaps strings can be pulled so it takes the same route again.

iaskwhy 13y ago
Small trivia: that path goes close to the Azores where the USAF has an airbase.
- andr 13y ago
  I'm sure this will not be a matter to be resolved by fighter jets. This is a regular commercial jet and if asked to land by air traffic control, it will land instead of going rogue. So as long as it stays off actual US airspace, it should be fine.
  - iaskwhy 13y ago
    I wasn't implying they would shot his plane. I could imagine the USAF "asking" the pilot to land on the airbase but I don't think any of these things will happen to him.
    - ibejoeb 13y ago
      The captain is not going to comply with such a request. An unscheduled landing is, if not illegal in a relevant jurisdiction, at least unnecessarily risky.
      - foobarqux 13y ago
        It has happened before. I think one of the original digital cash (e-gold, digicash) executives was arrested this way but I can't find the story now.
- wavefunction 13y ago

doktrin 13y ago

This strikes me as a non-issue. This case is far too high profile for the US to risk the diplomatic and PR fallout from forcing or otherwise coercing a commercial airliner to land unexpectedly.

brudgers 13y ago
And it's a Russian airline. Should there be a diplomatic incident, Russia has the means to carry out diplomacy by other means. A flight from Moscow was not chosen by lowest cost on Travelocity. Everyone is wearing big boy pants.