7 ms·

US whistleblower Edward Snowden believed to have landed in Russia

87 points by declan 13y ago

PavlovsCat 13y ago
This is not good, is it? What if he doesn't have a (super detailed and perfect) plan, and nobody out there can protect him, except the 300 million (if not 7 billion) people he did this for? What if this not a script written on our behalf, but real life? Because that's exactly what I am thinking, you may call him a fool or a criminal, but until you can show me evidence of any selfish motives, he did this for us, and our grandchildren to boot, wether you see that now or not. Sure, it's not the same as taking a bullet for a bus full of kids, he "just" leaked classified things and ran way; but if I assume he truly believed that was the right thing to do, maybe not the smartest and safest way to lead a long life, but the right thing to do, then I have to admire his guts, and as I said, unless there is a sudden twist in all this, I am already indebted to him. He's on the run from rather sinister people, too, who think nothing of killing thousands, or putting people in prison for life, just to make a point about dominance, while hiding behind human pyramids, deniability, limited liability and sophistry. If the public turns their back on him, he might be toast and that's that; which would be heartbreaking and flat out wrong to me.
- Irishsteve 13y ago
  Could be. But Wikileaks have also sent 'advisors' to sit with him. So in theory he's at least being advised on possible options.
throwaway10001 13y ago
Surprised the cab to the airport didn't "break down" (or blow up) or he didn't get mugged on his way to the airport. My guess is that Chinese agents were keeping the CIA and Western ones at bay, since that ultimately is Chinese territory. I never for a minute believe that he was in hidden location, otherwise NSA and CIA should be disbanded. While not ideal, Cuba is probably his best choice considering that China and Russia would not take /support him openly. The Chinese agents most likely cloned his drives one way or another and the Russians might do the same if there's a layover. It's really simple: "Wanna go to Cuba? Yes? Fine, then do what Igor says."
- adrinavarro 13y ago
  It'd be stupid not to have those stored somewhere else safe and/or encrypted.
- wmil 13y ago
  > Surprised the cab to the airport didn't "break down" (or blow up) or he didn't get mugged on his way to the airport. He's in no danger of being assassinated. There wouldn't be any point. Killing him to "make an example of him" doesn't make sense. Killing him with plausible deniability wouldn't send a message and killing him openly would just would just make the CIA look bad. However the US government can, publicly and openly, make his life very difficult.
  - devcpp 13y ago
    I don't think looking bad matters to these people at this point.
- eli 13y ago
  Appearances aside, this isn't actually a spy movie.
  - throwaway10001 13y ago
    Not a movie, but I am betting that hundred of spies were elbowing each other over him in Hong Kong. What he had with him is a gold mine. If they get an order to stop him from doing X, they have many tools at their arsenal
andr 13y ago
Russian news agency Interfax claims final destination is Venezuela. 13:36 SNOWDEN'S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA - SOURCE http://www.interfax.com/news.asp http://www.interfax.com/news.asp
tome 13y ago
Travelling to "China"[1], Russia, Cuba and Venezuela is not the way to get the average American on your side. Revealing secrets about how the US government is spying on enemies, rather than simply about how the US government is spying on its citizens is not the way to get the average American on your side. I can't say I admire what this man has done or how he has done it (aside from bringing domestic spying into the public eye, which I do think was a genuine public service). [1] Or rather what will be perceived as "China" by many Americans.
- throwaway10001 13y ago
  Armchair analysis. How about looking at his real alternatives? One was virtually 24 hour /day locked up in a sunless, concrete room the other going to Venezuela or Cuba to have a somewhat normal life. Hasn't he suffered enough, given what he gave up for the leaks? Must he burn alive too to please you?
  - tome 13y ago
    He didn't have to leak anything. If he thought it was right to leak about domestic spying he certainly didn't have to leak about international spying. If he'd stood up for US citizens rather than US enemies he could have remained in the US and fought his corner in the courts and the press.
    - karpodiem 13y ago
      I'm sorry, but you are out of your mind.
      - tome 13y ago
        How so?
        justletmepost 13y ago
        China is not an Enemy of the United States....
shocks 13y ago
What does Fmr mean?
- _ak 13y ago
  Former

87 points by declan 13y ago

This is not good, is it? What if he doesn't have a (super detailed and perfect) plan, and nobody out there can protect him, except the 300 million (if not 7 billion) people he did this for? What if this not a script written on our behalf, but real life? Because that's exactly what I am thinking, you may call him a fool or a criminal, but until you can show me evidence of any selfish motives, he did this for us, and our grandchildren to boot, wether you see that now or not. Sure, it's not the same as taking a bullet for a bus full of kids, he "just" leaked classified things and ran way; but if I assume he truly believed that was the right thing to do, maybe not the smartest and safest way to lead a long life, but the right thing to do, then I have to admire his guts, and as I said, unless there is a sudden twist in all this, I am already indebted to him. He's on the run from rather sinister people, too, who think nothing of killing thousands, or putting people in prison for life, just to make a point about dominance, while hiding behind human pyramids, deniability, limited liability and sophistry. If the public turns their back on him, he might be toast and that's that; which would be heartbreaking and flat out wrong to me.

Irishsteve 13y ago
Could be. But Wikileaks have also sent 'advisors' to sit with him. So in theory he's at least being advised on possible options.

throwaway10001 13y ago

Surprised the cab to the airport didn't "break down" (or blow up) or he didn't get mugged on his way to the airport. My guess is that Chinese agents were keeping the CIA and Western ones at bay, since that ultimately is Chinese territory. I never for a minute believe that he was in hidden location, otherwise NSA and CIA should be disbanded. While not ideal, Cuba is probably his best choice considering that China and Russia would not take /support him openly. The Chinese agents most likely cloned his drives one way or another and the Russians might do the same if there's a layover. It's really simple: "Wanna go to Cuba? Yes? Fine, then do what Igor says."

adrinavarro 13y ago
It'd be stupid not to have those stored somewhere else safe and/or encrypted.
wmil 13y ago
> Surprised the cab to the airport didn't "break down" (or blow up) or he didn't get mugged on his way to the airport. He's in no danger of being assassinated. There wouldn't be any point. Killing him to "make an example of him" doesn't make sense. Killing him with plausible deniability wouldn't send a message and killing him openly would just would just make the CIA look bad. However the US government can, publicly and openly, make his life very difficult.
- devcpp 13y ago
  I don't think looking bad matters to these people at this point.
eli 13y ago
Appearances aside, this isn't actually a spy movie.
- throwaway10001 13y ago
  Not a movie, but I am betting that hundred of spies were elbowing each other over him in Hong Kong. What he had with him is a gold mine. If they get an order to stop him from doing X, they have many tools at their arsenal

andr 13y ago

Russian news agency Interfax claims final destination is Venezuela. 13:36 SNOWDEN'S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN HAVANA - SOURCE http://www.interfax.com/news.asp http://www.interfax.com/news.asp

tome 13y ago

Travelling to "China"[1], Russia, Cuba and Venezuela is not the way to get the average American on your side. Revealing secrets about how the US government is spying on enemies, rather than simply about how the US government is spying on its citizens is not the way to get the average American on your side. I can't say I admire what this man has done or how he has done it (aside from bringing domestic spying into the public eye, which I do think was a genuine public service). [1] Or rather what will be perceived as "China" by many Americans.

throwaway10001 13y ago
Armchair analysis. How about looking at his real alternatives? One was virtually 24 hour /day locked up in a sunless, concrete room the other going to Venezuela or Cuba to have a somewhat normal life. Hasn't he suffered enough, given what he gave up for the leaks? Must he burn alive too to please you?
- tome 13y ago
  He didn't have to leak anything. If he thought it was right to leak about domestic spying he certainly didn't have to leak about international spying. If he'd stood up for US citizens rather than US enemies he could have remained in the US and fought his corner in the courts and the press.
  - karpodiem 13y ago
    I'm sorry, but you are out of your mind.
    - tome 13y ago
      How so?
      - justletmepost 13y ago
        China is not an Enemy of the United States....

shocks 13y ago

What does Fmr mean?

_ak 13y ago
Former