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HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden
- jasonjei 13y agoWow, I bet Hong Kong is thrilled that a technicality allowed Snowden to leave their turf and free them from a potential diplomatic headache... meanwhile defending the right to privacy of their citizens...
- josephagoss 13y agoEven if there was not a technicality, HK would have invented one to allow Snowden to move on. Read the release, HK is now asking for clarification about the hacking attacks against HK by the US. Looks like the really wanted him to leave and did not want to assist the US.
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- jasonjei 13y agoI agree--a reason could be invented. If you read between the lines, they seem pretty pissed at the US about the hacking. Letting Snowden catch his flight is payback.
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- josephagoss 13y agoImagine learning of all this hacking against your state, and then the state that did all that hacking demanded things from you and made a threat that relations would be harmed if you did not comply quick enough. Thats what the US just did to HK. US is acting like a giant bully at the moment.
- lttlrck 13y agoif they wanted any chance of clarification they should have kept him...
- pekk 13y agoWhere is hard evidence of the US 'hacking' HKSAR? Is this industrial espionage like China has been doing?
- darkarmani 13y ago> Is this industrial espionage like China has been doing? It's rich that you bring this up when it now turns out that the NSA is doing espionage on everyone.
- staunch 13y agoTranslation: "Fuck You"
- fritzy 13y agoThe pairing of the statement about Snowden with an inquiry into government sponsored hacking is telling about their attitude and reasons for not being super cooperative.
- h2s 13y agoExactly. The only way this could have read more like a "Fuck you, don't hack us and then ask for our help" is if they claimed there would be some delay in arresting him because they have taken a lot of computer systems offline for a comprehensive security audit in light of the revelations.
- fleitz 13y agoI believe they are paraphrasing Rage Against the Machine: Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me. edit: It's also a brilliant commentary on the rule of law, and due process rights.
- slacka 13y agoBest official government PR ever. I literally LOL'd when I got to the "fuck you" at the end. How did I, a patriotic American, enter this bizarro world where I find my self rooting for the Chinese government?
- heidar 13y agoIt's the HKSAR government, not the Chinese government (NPC). It's important to note that they are quite different.
- slacka 13y agoAgreed, I worked in PRC for several years and HK for a few months. I am well aware that HK has some degree of autonomy from China. I chose to write Chinese government for emphasis on the irony. Had I confused Taiwan and China, I could see the need for a correction. I hope it does not lead to a nuanced off-topic discussion.
- dualogy 13y ago> I am well aware that HK has some degree of autonomy More like a great deal of autonomy, for the time being. Except for military and foreign affairs (and perhaps immigration? not sure) in which areas China has authority, outside of those HKSAR is highly autonomous.
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- paulsutter 13y agoMy comments would be limited to "FUCK YEAH!"
- mpweiher 13y agoI believe that this is what it says, in no uncertain terms.
- pavs 13y agoI love living in this time where most countries can tell USA government, to go fuck themselves. This wasn't always the case.
- dualogy 13y agoArguably it was the case for most of US history, except the few decades after winning WW2 and worldwide USD deployment ;)
- igravious 13y agoThe Allies won WW2, Russia arguably sacrificed the most - the US benefited from the Allies victory and the decline of the British empire to assert near-global economic and military hegemony.
- lostlogin 13y agoJust to knit pick - The USSR pretty much won that war, they sure did some of the harder yards.
- patrickk 13y agoCorrect. 93% of German casualties were inflicted by the Red Army[1]. Operation Overlord was part of a 'blood debt' that Stalin felt western allied leaders owed him. The Russians would've likely taken Berlin eventually without the western allies opening up the western front, despite what Band of Brothers etc. might tell you. [1] see footnote three- http://www.americanpopularculture.com/archive/film/wayne.htm http://www.americanpopularculture.com/archive/film/wayne.htm
- josscrowcroft 13y agoWhat a wonderful press release. Compare this to the UK government's small-dog-loud-bark assertion that Snowden "is not welcome here... you know, just in case he was thinking about coming..." and the relative certainty that he would have been arrested instantly upon arrival here. What does that say?
- return0 13y agoThe US government is letting this turn to a huge trainwreck for them.
- genwin 13y agoWhich seems to be a trend for them. Yet another example showing that the US gov't is no longer by the people, for the people.
- Cbasedlifeform 13y agoYou'd think they would have learned about the concept of 'blowback' by now. Bad enough (strategically and otherwise) to spy on US citizens but WTF did they think Russia, China et al would do when they learned what was going on?
- chj 13y agoSmart move!
- jelled 13y agoPowerful use of "Meanwhile"
- genwin 13y agoShit just got real. The US gov't will now respond with a strongly-worded letter.
- sage_joch 13y agoThe response here seems overwhelmingly positive. And to some extent I get that. But it does make me nervous to see escalating tensions between major world powers. Especially when there were already tensions from the war in Syria.
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- b6 13y agoYou're right, it's a little worrisome. But the criminals in the US government are finally, finally being made to sweat a little, and more is on the way. This is like porn to me. There may actually be some real hope and change under Obama. And "no such agency" may become a reality. Go! Go! Go!
- kghose 13y agoIt is interesting to read the commentary here. Some of you here are US citizens. You do realize that you are supporting a person, who is basically a foreign agent and now a pawn in the hands of two foreign powers who themselves engage in cyber attacks all over the world. However, your responses are not new or novel. During the second world war the Nazi government took anti-war protests in the US to mean that public opinion was firmly against any intervention. What they did not count on was the fickleness of public opinion. I suspect many of you here will, in case a real war breaks out, be heading for a recruiting station. People are funny things.
- pavs 13y agoYou suspect wrong, I would suggest to re-read history without pro-us-government prism (heh).
- fleitz 13y agoSnowden is Casablanca, the Chinese are now shocked that America would hack them. You think a low-level sysop is really revealing stuff the Chinese didn't know?
- kghose 13y agoNo, but he is a propaganda pawn.
- fleitz 13y agoI didn't realize starting 2 wars, summarily executing children, and running torture camps was a feel good PR campaign. In that light I guess Snowden will be a major detriment to US public relations worldwide.
- kghose 13y agoNo, but that is not what Snowden is being used to say. Snowden is being used as part of a propaganda war re: US espionage by a country (China) which itself has expansionist ambitions and itself has a well developed cyber espionage/war machine.
- dsirijus 13y agoThey should've put Facebook Like button there.
- mbenjaminsmith 13y agoMy opinion of the HK SAR, which has always been quite high, just went up a couple of notches. I hope Snowden finds asylum and can live a reasonably comfortable life. He's a patriot. I'm a US citizen and I'm pro-US but this bullshit has to stop.
- nthj 13y ago> I'm a US citizen and I'm pro-US and this bullshit has to stop. FTFY
- mbenjaminsmith 13y agoAgreed.
- seferphier 13y agoHK just dodged a bullet. this was the most strategically sound thing to do. HK govt would just listen to the officials in China on this matter. In the same time, it has to respect the judicial system (if he applies to be asylum seeker). A very careful line must be struck between the two.
- lostlogin 13y agoGreat comment on the awkwardness of their situation. A bullet it was not, however. It would have been slow, protracted and very painful. There are some happy officials, feeling 10 years older but having a celebratory drink I'm sure.
- reinhardt 13y agoBest part was the closing: "Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong."
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- zokier 13y agoThe cheering for HK in this thread is interesting, when the end result was not that positive. Snowden had to leave the place that I believe he hoped to be a safe haven for him, and now he is quite literally on the run again.
- a3n 13y agoMy impression has been that HK was always only intended as a first stop. I don't know if he had a specific end destination, but I don't think he considered HK as the end destination.
- jrs235 13y ago"Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law" Sounds like they took the NSA's line right out of their mouths: "Many of the requests that you forwarded to this office do not contain a complete mailing address. Therefore, we cannot respond to those requests..." (http://www.mynsarecords.com/blog/2013-06-21-nsa-please-stop-sending-us-foia-requests/ http://www.mynsarecords.com/blog/2013-06-21-nsa-please-stop-...)
- jusben1369 13y agoI find the high praise for the HK government very odd. Basically they told Snowden they'd stall for him (docs are missing page 4 - please resubmit) but he'd better hit the road fast. Worry about a domestic audience they add "With zero leverage now we promise to follow up on snooping." That will of course go no where. The Chinese do not want to set the precedent that governments should ignore extradition treaties and thus harbor fugitives wanted on national security issues. I don't blame the HK gov - just question some of the responses here.
- npalli 13y agoExactly right. Even worse, looks like Snowden was played for a fool (whatever his motivations). The HK/Chinese extracted couple of damning statements about NSA spying on Chinese and then tossed Snowden away. I doubt Snowden saw this coming. Also, looks like they had a "deal" with the US govt and then let Snowden go on some technicality. "Loss of face" for the US Gov for sure, a big thing in those parts of the world. None of this connected with the problem of NSA spying domestically and a completely muddled message. Now with the whole China/Russia/Ecaudor/Wikileaks angle good luck to Snowden getting any popular support. He looks more like a foreign agent.
- mbenjaminsmith 13y ago> Basically they told Snowden they'd stall for him (docs are missing page 4 - please resubmit) but he'd better hit the road fast. Do you mind citing your source(s)?
- mehwoot 13y agoI think we all know that the true intentions of the countries involved in this matter and the public statements are not going to line up here. They would be absolute fools if they came out and said "we stalled to let him leave the country" but when you look at the situation it's almost undeniable that is what they did (not that they would probably see anything wrong with it). Asking for sources is completely inane.
- corford 13y agoI think a lot of HNers who live in Western countries (myself included) are so jaded with our respective governments subservience to the US that it's very nice for once to see a small country not immediately bend over and lube up the minute the US asks it to.
- galapago 13y agoThey use a terrible font in that web, oh.. my eyes!
- downandout 13y ago"Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong." That paragraph, included in this very same release, says all they need to say about how he got out of the country. HK knew it couldn't offer safe harbor for him given the economic ties of itself and China to the US, but they obviously offered him safe passage. Snowden's strategy of letting his host country know what we had done to them actually worked.