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>Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports. I first thought tha

>Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports. I first thought that Ecuador would be more likely, since had Iceland been his final destination, he probably would have taken the Icelandic businessman's offer to hire him a chartered flight. But then I realized that perhaps Snowden places more trust in a commercial flight and not being detained in Moscow than a stranger's chartered flight which could potentially backstab him and hand him over to US authorities.

samstave 13y ago
Or, he could have bought the ticket to moscow and went to HKG with the ticket to board the commercial flight to Ecuador via moscow and then boarded the private plane to KEF (unlikely - but fun to think about)
mtgx 13y ago
Iceland hasn't exactly been very vocal about supporting him, so Ecuador might be the best choice. Russia I think was pretty vocal, but maybe they just wanted to make fun of US, and aren't really serious about protecting Snowden. Plus, they support US's surveillance state, so there's little reason why they'd want to protect him, other than being vengeful against US for whatever reason. Ecuador so far has been pretty good for Assange, and they might continue to want to be seen as "the country that stood up to US", but nobody really knows how far they are willing to go to do that. At least Assange hasn't even been charged with anything by US, yet.
- _k 13y ago
  Putin didn't really say they support the US's surveillance state, he said surveillance is necessary but you need a warrant.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Yeah, careful with that guy. A lot of people who didn't get on with him seem to die in strange ways. But don't talk about it - especially not Pussy Riot style as dissent isn't ok.
    - insuffi 13y ago
      You know, I find it puzzling that, even though USA has proven itself to be literally on the same level as the "communist" countries(read: China, Russia), people still apply selective blindness. People die in strange ways in the states too. Michael Hastings much?
      - davidw 13y ago
        > though USA has proven itself to be literally on the same level as the "communist" countries And people wonder why I complain about seeing political discussions on this site. How can you have a serious discussion with bizarre comments like the above? And just so it's clear: one can simultaneously hold in one's mind the view that there are some serious imperfections and injustices in the US, and that there are a lot of worse places - and some that are probably better.
        insuffi 13y ago
        If by serious imperfections and injustices you mean the violation of fundamental human rights, including freedom of speech, that America flaunts right and left. "What makes America the greatest country in the world? re: Freedom and freedom, and let's keep it that way."
        XorNot 13y ago
        And you've got your blinkers on if you think that's really the worst it can get, or if you think Putin "really isn't that bad".
        insuffi 13y ago
        That's not at all what I said. The difference is that Putin doesn't spread propaganda through every news channel about how Russia is a truly democratic country and everyone has their freedoms according to the law. Everyone KNOWS he is a tyran, and he doesn't do much to change that. Now let us observe the american media - 1)America birthplace of freedom? check. 2)America greatest country in the world? check. Despite not leading the world in a single category(besides defense spending). 3)Ideologically and officially different but pragmatically similar political parties? check. America - the birthplace of hypocrisy and the God complex.
  - fabrika 13y ago
    Here in Russia we have our own PRISM since 90-s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM
    - oddx 13y ago
      SORM is used for selective surveillance (by adjudication) and not even close for total monitoring programs like PRISM.
      - gasull 13y ago
        Can you elaborate on this or offer a link? I agree that PRISM is worse since they spy on almost all the world Internet traffic and phone calls, but I wouldn't trust Russian Government to only spy with a warrant.
- perlpimp 13y ago
  I'd rather not lump whole country together and rather refine to US Federal Government executive branch and their services.
- runarberg 13y ago
  The Icelandic domestic minister (which handles asylum requests) has announced that Snowden will be treated like any other asylum seeker[1]. That is not good news for Snowden since Iceland's take on asylum seekers is usually to not handle their case at all, or turn them back[2]. However Hanna Birna (the minister) has been highly criticized for her take on the issue, since it clearly contradicts the IMMI initiative (https://immi.is/ https://immi.is/). And hopes are that the Parliament will handle his case. But in short, the Icelandic government is not going to do anything about Snowden. [1] http://www.visir.is/engin-sermedferd-fyrir-snowden/article/2013130619106 http://www.visir.is/engin-sermedferd-fyrir-snowden/article/2... (icelandic) [2] some statisstics here (http://redcross.lausn.is/Apps/WebObjects/RedCross.woa/swdocument/1041663/haelisleitendur_agust2011.pdf?wosid=false http://redcross.lausn.is/Apps/WebObjects/RedCross.woa/swdocu...) in icelandic too.
coldtea 13y ago
>I first thought that Ecuador would be more likely Ecuador? I don't see that happening. It's a remote, third worldish place, where state officials could be bribed to hand him over, or he could be abducted or worse by any small team, including paid local thugs. Iceland, as a country with an actual rule of law et al, and closer to Europe, it will be far more difficult.
- insuffi 13y ago
  Because all "third world-ish" places are the same. Also, because Ecuador doesn't have an actual rule of law, hasn't been holding Assange in its embassy for years and isn't easy to disappear in.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Because all "third world-ish" places are the same. They more or less are from that aspect. The "third world" status is mostly a result of corruption, foreign influence and/or colonial history. And it implies impoverished locals and a not very powerful state. All of these things point towards easy reach for a powerful foreign country. >Also, because Ecuador doesn't have an actual rule of law, hasn't been holding Assange in its embassy for years and isn't easy to disappear in. Not the same thing at all. For one, Assange is a heroic figure for far more people, including in the US -- whereas a lot of people have been convinced Snowden is a "traitor" (with him being a US citizen AND a secret services employee et al). So it's a lot more difficult to publicly prosecute Assange, and the US is probably content to let the thing linger than extort full pressure. Second, an embassy, and one in London, nonetheless, is easier to secure than a whole country. For Assange to "disappear" or be delivered from there, it would mean either a direct and open attack (affecting both Ecuador and UK) or Ecuador's government open collaboration. Whereas someone can "disappear" or found dead INSIDE a country like Ecuador with not many problems. Case in point: http://www.news9.com/story/22638726/foreign-authorities-assume-kidnapping-of-okc-valedictorian http://www.news9.com/story/22638726/foreign-authorities-assu... http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/09/201293092931199189.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/09/2012930929311... http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/ecuador-foreign-couple-kidnapped-ransom-rescued/3713/ http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/ecuador-foreign-couple-...

samstave 13y ago

Or, he could have bought the ticket to moscow and went to HKG with the ticket to board the commercial flight to Ecuador via moscow and then boarded the private plane to KEF (unlikely - but fun to think about)

mtgx 13y ago

Iceland hasn't exactly been very vocal about supporting him, so Ecuador might be the best choice. Russia I think was pretty vocal, but maybe they just wanted to make fun of US, and aren't really serious about protecting Snowden. Plus, they support US's surveillance state, so there's little reason why they'd want to protect him, other than being vengeful against US for whatever reason. Ecuador so far has been pretty good for Assange, and they might continue to want to be seen as "the country that stood up to US", but nobody really knows how far they are willing to go to do that. At least Assange hasn't even been charged with anything by US, yet.

_k 13y ago
Putin didn't really say they support the US's surveillance state, he said surveillance is necessary but you need a warrant.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Yeah, careful with that guy. A lot of people who didn't get on with him seem to die in strange ways. But don't talk about it - especially not Pussy Riot style as dissent isn't ok.
  - insuffi 13y ago
    You know, I find it puzzling that, even though USA has proven itself to be literally on the same level as the "communist" countries(read: China, Russia), people still apply selective blindness. People die in strange ways in the states too. Michael Hastings much?
    - davidw 13y ago
      > though USA has proven itself to be literally on the same level as the "communist" countries And people wonder why I complain about seeing political discussions on this site. How can you have a serious discussion with bizarre comments like the above? And just so it's clear: one can simultaneously hold in one's mind the view that there are some serious imperfections and injustices in the US, and that there are a lot of worse places - and some that are probably better.
      - insuffi 13y ago
        If by serious imperfections and injustices you mean the violation of fundamental human rights, including freedom of speech, that America flaunts right and left. "What makes America the greatest country in the world? re: Freedom and freedom, and let's keep it that way."
        XorNot 13y ago
        And you've got your blinkers on if you think that's really the worst it can get, or if you think Putin "really isn't that bad".
        insuffi 13y ago
        That's not at all what I said. The difference is that Putin doesn't spread propaganda through every news channel about how Russia is a truly democratic country and everyone has their freedoms according to the law. Everyone KNOWS he is a tyran, and he doesn't do much to change that. Now let us observe the american media - 1)America birthplace of freedom? check. 2)America greatest country in the world? check. Despite not leading the world in a single category(besides defense spending). 3)Ideologically and officially different but pragmatically similar political parties? check. America - the birthplace of hypocrisy and the God complex.
- fabrika 13y ago
  Here in Russia we have our own PRISM since 90-s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM
  - oddx 13y ago
    SORM is used for selective surveillance (by adjudication) and not even close for total monitoring programs like PRISM.
    - gasull 13y ago
      Can you elaborate on this or offer a link? I agree that PRISM is worse since they spy on almost all the world Internet traffic and phone calls, but I wouldn't trust Russian Government to only spy with a warrant.
perlpimp 13y ago
I'd rather not lump whole country together and rather refine to US Federal Government executive branch and their services.
runarberg 13y ago
The Icelandic domestic minister (which handles asylum requests) has announced that Snowden will be treated like any other asylum seeker[1]. That is not good news for Snowden since Iceland's take on asylum seekers is usually to not handle their case at all, or turn them back[2]. However Hanna Birna (the minister) has been highly criticized for her take on the issue, since it clearly contradicts the IMMI initiative (https://immi.is/ https://immi.is/). And hopes are that the Parliament will handle his case. But in short, the Icelandic government is not going to do anything about Snowden. [1] http://www.visir.is/engin-sermedferd-fyrir-snowden/article/2013130619106 http://www.visir.is/engin-sermedferd-fyrir-snowden/article/2... (icelandic) [2] some statisstics here (http://redcross.lausn.is/Apps/WebObjects/RedCross.woa/swdocument/1041663/haelisleitendur_agust2011.pdf?wosid=false http://redcross.lausn.is/Apps/WebObjects/RedCross.woa/swdocu...) in icelandic too.

coldtea 13y ago

>I first thought that Ecuador would be more likely Ecuador? I don't see that happening. It's a remote, third worldish place, where state officials could be bribed to hand him over, or he could be abducted or worse by any small team, including paid local thugs. Iceland, as a country with an actual rule of law et al, and closer to Europe, it will be far more difficult.

insuffi 13y ago
Because all "third world-ish" places are the same. Also, because Ecuador doesn't have an actual rule of law, hasn't been holding Assange in its embassy for years and isn't easy to disappear in.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Because all "third world-ish" places are the same. They more or less are from that aspect. The "third world" status is mostly a result of corruption, foreign influence and/or colonial history. And it implies impoverished locals and a not very powerful state. All of these things point towards easy reach for a powerful foreign country. >Also, because Ecuador doesn't have an actual rule of law, hasn't been holding Assange in its embassy for years and isn't easy to disappear in. Not the same thing at all. For one, Assange is a heroic figure for far more people, including in the US -- whereas a lot of people have been convinced Snowden is a "traitor" (with him being a US citizen AND a secret services employee et al). So it's a lot more difficult to publicly prosecute Assange, and the US is probably content to let the thing linger than extort full pressure. Second, an embassy, and one in London, nonetheless, is easier to secure than a whole country. For Assange to "disappear" or be delivered from there, it would mean either a direct and open attack (affecting both Ecuador and UK) or Ecuador's government open collaboration. Whereas someone can "disappear" or found dead INSIDE a country like Ecuador with not many problems. Case in point: http://www.news9.com/story/22638726/foreign-authorities-assume-kidnapping-of-okc-valedictorian http://www.news9.com/story/22638726/foreign-authorities-assu... http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/09/201293092931199189.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/09/2012930929311... http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/ecuador-foreign-couple-kidnapped-ransom-rescued/3713/ http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/ecuador-foreign-couple-...