5 ms·

He has some good points which I appreciate, but I do think he's trying to associate his own ordeal with something that is of a completely different magnitude. H

by Steer 13y ago

He has some good points which I appreciate, but I do think he's trying to associate his own ordeal with something that is of a completely different magnitude. He's stuck at that embassy because he does not want to be interrogated by the Swedish police on suspicions of having had sex with a woman without a condom against her will. He is of course not guilty until proven otherwise, but the reason that he is at the embassy does at least not make him a hero. Again, I agree with most of his points, but I find the association in this passage distasteful: > As a result of that decision, I have been able to > work in relative safety from a US espionage investigation. > > But today, Edward Snowden’s ordeal is just beginning. Update: I should have also written that Assange says that he will not go to Sweden because the authorities here will extradite him to the US.

CamperBob2 13y ago
He's stuck at that embassy because he does not want to be interrogated by the Swedish police on suspicions of having had sex with a woman without a condom against her will. You know very well that this is not an accurate or complete statement of the problem.
- Steer 13y ago
  Technically I think I am correct with that statement (or at least close). In regards to any other theories as of why the Swedish police is trying to extradite him to Sweden I have a hard time believing them. I know quite a lot of people believe them and of course there could be some truth in them (or not), but from what I know and believe they are not believable. I could be wrong. Debating this is to me like debating religion, you believe what you believe. Regardless, I still say that he's trying to associate himself with people that have done far, far more good than he has done.
  - lettergram 13y ago
    He probably helped give Snowden hope that actually leaking information without death was possible. The more this happens, the more people will do it.
    - mpyne 13y ago
      Uh, John Walker anyone? The U.S. has executed a spy (even in the military) in decades.
- rosser 13y ago
  Unfortunately for Assange and his character, the inaccurate part isn't "had forcible unprotected sexual intercourse with someone". His lawyer has stipulated to the victim's statements.
  - belorn 13y ago
    Source? What I have read, the only statement that the lawyer has stipulated is that Assange had sex. Not that it was forced.
andrewljohnson 13y ago
Assange says that he won't go to Sweden because they will extradite him to the US, which I believe is true. But even if it isn't true, your comment needs to acknowledge his side of the story to be taken seriously.
- Steer 13y ago
  I apologize and agree that I should have written that he believes that, regardless of that I do not think it is true. If it helps I do not think he's crazy and I do see why he could think that he could be extradited.
- tptacek 13y ago
  It is actually harder to extradite Assange from Sweden than from the UK, in that such an extradition would require the approval of both the UK and Sweden.
  - pathy 13y ago
    Exactly this. There is no way it is easier for US to extradite him from Sweden than UK, even ignoring the law about requiring the approval of both UK and Sweden. I sympathise with Assange and his original Wikileaks goals but I do feel he is just trying to dodge prosecution for a (alleged) crime. Right now he spent a year in, pretty much, prison and for what reason? The possibility for a shorter stay in Swedish prison? US extraditing him (assuming he arrives in Sweden some time) would cause a shitstorm of untold proportions, it would be political suicide IMO.
  - belorn 13y ago
    I doubt there is anything harder than to extradite Assange from an embassy which has granted Assange asylum. Since that’s the actually reality, if an extradition is made, UK isn't as much in the picture expect that the embassy is technically located inside the UK.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      No, that argument moves the goalposts. He's in the embassy because he didn't want to go to Sweden. He claims not to have wanted to go to Sweden because of the ease of extraditing him from Sweden. But it was easier to extradite him while he was walking the streets of the UK.
nemof 13y ago
A good overview of the the bunkum Assangians have been making up: http://www.newstatesman.com/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition http://www.newstatesman.com/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-... http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/09/legal-mythology-extradition-julian-assange http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/09/legal-mythol... He needs to get himself to Sweden and clear his name, if he is indeed innocent. Until that happens, it would be better if someone with a better reputation picked up the baton.
- raganwald 13y ago
  So easy to say "it would be better if someone with a better reputation picked up the baton," so difficult to actually quit your day job and do it yourself.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    And so here we are. You're right, but so is the parent comment. Just witness the difference in reaction between Manning and the much more sympathetic Snowden.
    - raganwald 13y ago
      Oh absolutely both can be right. Just because one thing is easier than the other doesn't mean it's wrong. It might take 1,000hrs to write some code, ten minutes to point out a flaw, and four hours to fix it. All three tasks have value :-)
- contingencies 13y ago
  That has been debunked. Wikileaks legal team responded to this in depth: It is 55,972 words long, which is roughly 70 per cent of the length of a doctoral thesis. Julian’s legal defence committee prioritised this and asked a person to look into the arguments in depth, in order to produce a compelling response due to the harm caused by David Allen Green’s misinformation. It was peer-reviewed and revised and took six months to produce http://justice4assange.com/extraditing-assange.html http://justice4assange.com/extraditing-assange.html
hremid 13y ago
Without getting into the details, it should be pointed out that: * Mr. Assange hasn't been charged with any offense and denies any wrong-doing. * He submitted to questioning by police in Stockholm in August, 2010. * He agreed to further questioning in UK, something routinely done under UK's Mutual Legal Assistance system. Sweden refused for unspecified reasons [1]. * Mr. Assange has agreed to go to Sweden upon assurance that he won't be extradited to the US (an assurance the Swedish government has the legal authority to provide). * "[Sweden] has a disturbing history of lawlessly handing over suspects to the US. A 2006 UN ruling found Sweden in violation of the global ban on torture for helping the CIA render two suspected terrorists to Egypt, where they were brutally tortured (both individuals, asylum-seekers in Sweden, were ultimately found to be innocent of any connection to terrorism and received a monetary settlement from the Swedish government)." [2] * The physical evidence provided in the case does not implicate Assange in any way. [1] https://twitter.com/Utrikesdep/status/236792222937399296 https://twitter.com/Utrikesdep/status/236792222937399296 (Swedish Foreign Ministry) [2] (a) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/20/julian-assange-right-asylum http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/20/julian-a... (b) http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-ban-cia-rendition http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-b...
- arrrg 13y ago
  Why the hell should he get an assurance that he will not be extradited? That's a guarantee the Swedish government most certainly cannot give him (or anybody else). It would be crazy to do that and has nothing whatsoever to do with the case at hand. But keep on spreading your weird propaganda.
  - bandushrew 13y ago
    Here in NZ it is illegal to transfer a prisoner into the care of a country known to torture its prisoners. Surely its not unreasonable, before surrendering, to request a promise that one will not be sent into a regime known for torturing its prisoners?
    - gsnedders 13y ago

by Steer 13y ago

CamperBob2 13y ago

He's stuck at that embassy because he does not want to be interrogated by the Swedish police on suspicions of having had sex with a woman without a condom against her will. You know very well that this is not an accurate or complete statement of the problem.

Steer 13y ago
Technically I think I am correct with that statement (or at least close). In regards to any other theories as of why the Swedish police is trying to extradite him to Sweden I have a hard time believing them. I know quite a lot of people believe them and of course there could be some truth in them (or not), but from what I know and believe they are not believable. I could be wrong. Debating this is to me like debating religion, you believe what you believe. Regardless, I still say that he's trying to associate himself with people that have done far, far more good than he has done.
- lettergram 13y ago
  He probably helped give Snowden hope that actually leaking information without death was possible. The more this happens, the more people will do it.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Uh, John Walker anyone? The U.S. has executed a spy (even in the military) in decades.
rosser 13y ago
Unfortunately for Assange and his character, the inaccurate part isn't "had forcible unprotected sexual intercourse with someone". His lawyer has stipulated to the victim's statements.
- belorn 13y ago
  Source? What I have read, the only statement that the lawyer has stipulated is that Assange had sex. Not that it was forced.

andrewljohnson 13y ago

Assange says that he won't go to Sweden because they will extradite him to the US, which I believe is true. But even if it isn't true, your comment needs to acknowledge his side of the story to be taken seriously.

Steer 13y ago
I apologize and agree that I should have written that he believes that, regardless of that I do not think it is true. If it helps I do not think he's crazy and I do see why he could think that he could be extradited.
tptacek 13y ago
It is actually harder to extradite Assange from Sweden than from the UK, in that such an extradition would require the approval of both the UK and Sweden.
- pathy 13y ago
  Exactly this. There is no way it is easier for US to extradite him from Sweden than UK, even ignoring the law about requiring the approval of both UK and Sweden. I sympathise with Assange and his original Wikileaks goals but I do feel he is just trying to dodge prosecution for a (alleged) crime. Right now he spent a year in, pretty much, prison and for what reason? The possibility for a shorter stay in Swedish prison? US extraditing him (assuming he arrives in Sweden some time) would cause a shitstorm of untold proportions, it would be political suicide IMO.
- belorn 13y ago
  I doubt there is anything harder than to extradite Assange from an embassy which has granted Assange asylum. Since that’s the actually reality, if an extradition is made, UK isn't as much in the picture expect that the embassy is technically located inside the UK.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    No, that argument moves the goalposts. He's in the embassy because he didn't want to go to Sweden. He claims not to have wanted to go to Sweden because of the ease of extraditing him from Sweden. But it was easier to extradite him while he was walking the streets of the UK.

nemof 13y ago

A good overview of the the bunkum Assangians have been making up: http://www.newstatesman.com/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition http://www.newstatesman.com/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-... http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/09/legal-mythology-extradition-julian-assange http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/09/legal-mythol... He needs to get himself to Sweden and clear his name, if he is indeed innocent. Until that happens, it would be better if someone with a better reputation picked up the baton.

raganwald 13y ago
So easy to say "it would be better if someone with a better reputation picked up the baton," so difficult to actually quit your day job and do it yourself.
- mpyne 13y ago
  And so here we are. You're right, but so is the parent comment. Just witness the difference in reaction between Manning and the much more sympathetic Snowden.
  - raganwald 13y ago
    Oh absolutely both can be right. Just because one thing is easier than the other doesn't mean it's wrong. It might take 1,000hrs to write some code, ten minutes to point out a flaw, and four hours to fix it. All three tasks have value :-)
contingencies 13y ago
That has been debunked. Wikileaks legal team responded to this in depth: It is 55,972 words long, which is roughly 70 per cent of the length of a doctoral thesis. Julian’s legal defence committee prioritised this and asked a person to look into the arguments in depth, in order to produce a compelling response due to the harm caused by David Allen Green’s misinformation. It was peer-reviewed and revised and took six months to produce http://justice4assange.com/extraditing-assange.html http://justice4assange.com/extraditing-assange.html

hremid 13y ago

Without getting into the details, it should be pointed out that: * Mr. Assange hasn't been charged with any offense and denies any wrong-doing. * He submitted to questioning by police in Stockholm in August, 2010. * He agreed to further questioning in UK, something routinely done under UK's Mutual Legal Assistance system. Sweden refused for unspecified reasons [1]. * Mr. Assange has agreed to go to Sweden upon assurance that he won't be extradited to the US (an assurance the Swedish government has the legal authority to provide). * "[Sweden] has a disturbing history of lawlessly handing over suspects to the US. A 2006 UN ruling found Sweden in violation of the global ban on torture for helping the CIA render two suspected terrorists to Egypt, where they were brutally tortured (both individuals, asylum-seekers in Sweden, were ultimately found to be innocent of any connection to terrorism and received a monetary settlement from the Swedish government)." [2] * The physical evidence provided in the case does not implicate Assange in any way. [1] https://twitter.com/Utrikesdep/status/236792222937399296 https://twitter.com/Utrikesdep/status/236792222937399296 (Swedish Foreign Ministry) [2] (a) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/20/julian-assange-right-asylum http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/20/julian-a... (b) http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-ban-cia-rendition http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-b...

arrrg 13y ago
Why the hell should he get an assurance that he will not be extradited? That's a guarantee the Swedish government most certainly cannot give him (or anybody else). It would be crazy to do that and has nothing whatsoever to do with the case at hand. But keep on spreading your weird propaganda.
- bandushrew 13y ago
  Here in NZ it is illegal to transfer a prisoner into the care of a country known to torture its prisoners. Surely its not unreasonable, before surrendering, to request a promise that one will not be sent into a regime known for torturing its prisoners?
  - gsnedders 13y ago