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This makes me curious. Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popula

by clicks 13y ago

This makes me curious. Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popular tech blogs? I recall seeing a document not too long about how the FBI could basically "destroy" a public forum by trolling, insulting, making fun of certain ideas certain principles certain people. In the recent months I've been seeing this on Reddit, -- views that before couldn't be found before about acceptance of surveillance at the cost of liberty, about the goods of laissez-faire capitalistic systems -- you didn't see this much on Reddit before. I'm not sure what to make of it, if it's just new users with different views or if there is some concerted effort by political, or possibly governmental entities to shape things in their favor. That probably sounds unreasonably conspiratorial, but nevertheless consider how effective such a taking would be. Once the public at large is on their side, it's a done deal. Anyway, the great thing about HN is we wouldn't fall prey to such troll tactics. It's good that unsubstantiated attacks, ad hominems, etc. are usually downvoted.

cbgfdgmhtyju 13y ago
> consider how effective such a taking would be. Effective at what? Getting computer programmers to going back on topic? That would be awesome. Why would the NSA care who's getting karma points on Hacker News?
- clicks 13y ago
  I can't tell if you're a bad troll, if you're trying to be deliberately obtuse for whatever reason, or are just plain misinformed. But I'll humour you anyway. Keith Alexander, the NSA chief head himself, came to the last Defcon (IN BLACK JEANS AND A HIP T-SHIRT, NO LESS) trying to recruit hackers [1]. Shaping the opinions of hackers as to whether they support/work for the surveillance state. [1]: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57481689-83/nsa-director-finally-greets-defcon-hackers/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57481689-83/nsa-director-fi...
  - lhl 13y ago
    Not just any "hip" t-shirt, but an EFF t-shirt: https://twitter.com/EFF/status/346011010819305472 https://twitter.com/EFF/status/346011010819305472 And they that say irony is dead.
mindcrime 13y ago
Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popular tech blogs? I strongly suspect that they do. I think there have even been some published articles about various govt. agencies developing (or looking to develop) technology for this kind of manipulation. I don't have a citation handy, but if I can scare up one of the articles I think I'm remembering, I'll post it. Edit: Here you go, they they definitely have the technology, but - as you might expect - they claim it isn't used on Americans. But in light of everything else we've learned the past few weeks, would anybody be surprised to find out that they are, indeed, using this on Americans? http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-oper...
- clicks 13y ago
  Well there we are. Maybe submit that to HN? I'd love to see discussion on it, and how we can resist these doings. edit: I see it here now -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5925001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5925001 -- thanks
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    It was discussed here at least once before, but I submitted it again, as it may be more topical now than it was then, in some ways.
- wittyphrasehere 13y ago
  Here it is on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5298125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5298125 I agree with clicks that it's something worth being aware of.
- reeses 13y ago
  4chan could destroy popular tech blogs and fora. The main difference is that the people in the government have more pubes and slightly less porn. They're both gangs of people who have personal motivations but a mob mentality.
aclevernickname 13y ago
>Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popular tech blogs? check out my post history. it's happening to me as we speak. I posted a solution: sue them. I got buried. :)
grey-area 13y ago
I've seen the same on the guardian comment threads. There are so many new accounts posting single comments in support of gchq that regulars have started to notice it. What's strange is the comments often claim indifference and yet have registered especially just to post once about their apathy at this news of widespread surveillance :)
trotsky 13y ago
Your question can be restated in a much simpler form as "Do you think propaganda efforts have shifted from newspapers, radio and television to include social media outlets?" And I would answer, do you think if you were in charge of such things you'd be suitably doing your job if you hadn't?
pallinder 13y ago
"..about the goods of laissez-faire capitalistic systems" Im pretty certain any government agency wanting to self preserve would NOT want laissez-faire.

by clicks 13y ago

cbgfdgmhtyju 13y ago

> consider how effective such a taking would be. Effective at what? Getting computer programmers to going back on topic? That would be awesome. Why would the NSA care who's getting karma points on Hacker News?

clicks 13y ago
I can't tell if you're a bad troll, if you're trying to be deliberately obtuse for whatever reason, or are just plain misinformed. But I'll humour you anyway. Keith Alexander, the NSA chief head himself, came to the last Defcon (IN BLACK JEANS AND A HIP T-SHIRT, NO LESS) trying to recruit hackers [1]. Shaping the opinions of hackers as to whether they support/work for the surveillance state. [1]: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57481689-83/nsa-director-finally-greets-defcon-hackers/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57481689-83/nsa-director-fi...
- lhl 13y ago
  Not just any "hip" t-shirt, but an EFF t-shirt: https://twitter.com/EFF/status/346011010819305472 https://twitter.com/EFF/status/346011010819305472 And they that say irony is dead.

mindcrime 13y ago

Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popular tech blogs? I strongly suspect that they do. I think there have even been some published articles about various govt. agencies developing (or looking to develop) technology for this kind of manipulation. I don't have a citation handy, but if I can scare up one of the articles I think I'm remembering, I'll post it. Edit: Here you go, they they definitely have the technology, but - as you might expect - they claim it isn't used on Americans. But in light of everything else we've learned the past few weeks, would anybody be surprised to find out that they are, indeed, using this on Americans? http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-oper...

clicks 13y ago
Well there we are. Maybe submit that to HN? I'd love to see discussion on it, and how we can resist these doings. edit: I see it here now -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5925001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5925001 -- thanks
- mindcrime 13y ago
  It was discussed here at least once before, but I submitted it again, as it may be more topical now than it was then, in some ways.
wittyphrasehere 13y ago
Here it is on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5298125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5298125 I agree with clicks that it's something worth being aware of.
reeses 13y ago
4chan could destroy popular tech blogs and fora. The main difference is that the people in the government have more pubes and slightly less porn. They're both gangs of people who have personal motivations but a mob mentality.

aclevernickname 13y ago

>Do you think three-letter agencies are now actively trying to shape public opinion of themselves and their doings by astroturfing popular tech blogs? check out my post history. it's happening to me as we speak. I posted a solution: sue them. I got buried. :)

grey-area 13y ago

I've seen the same on the guardian comment threads. There are so many new accounts posting single comments in support of gchq that regulars have started to notice it. What's strange is the comments often claim indifference and yet have registered especially just to post once about their apathy at this news of widespread surveillance :)

trotsky 13y ago

Your question can be restated in a much simpler form as "Do you think propaganda efforts have shifted from newspapers, radio and television to include social media outlets?" And I would answer, do you think if you were in charge of such things you'd be suitably doing your job if you hadn't?

pallinder 13y ago

"..about the goods of laissez-faire capitalistic systems" Im pretty certain any government agency wanting to self preserve would NOT want laissez-faire.