6 ms·

This is easily much worse than Nixon. Nixon was a paranoid president with a cadre of political flunkies willing to do whatever it took for him to stay in power.

This is easily much worse than Nixon. Nixon was a paranoid president with a cadre of political flunkies willing to do whatever it took for him to stay in power. Once the bozos were thrown out, that game was up. This is a systemic problem, not just one president. Obama's just the first guy really seeing how far he can push things. You can bet that the next president, no matter which party, will keep pushing. This is much worse than Nixon. Nixon was a scandal. His own party deserted him. With Obama you still have millions standing by to make apologies for whatever has been done -- and whatever comes next. A very bad situation. What we're going to see now is what the world would have looked like if Nixon had gotten away with it.

tptacek 13y ago
This is the kind of comment one could have written without reading the article. Did you? What do you think about the Rosen case?
- DanielBMarkham 13y ago
  You can't make a reporter doing his job a crime. ADD: Further details here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5924505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5924505
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Rosen hasn't been charged with a crime.
    - jbronn 13y ago
      He was served a search warrant alleging he was part of a criminal conspiracy. This is a prelude to criminal charges. Stop your semantic hysterics.
      - tptacek 13y ago
        Ahh, 2013 Hacker News, where the difference between "being charged with a federal crime" and "not being charged with a federal crime" is "semantic hysterics".
        electromagnetic 13y ago
        Innocent until proven you're against my political beliefs.
_delirium 13y ago
Obama's just the first guy really seeing how far he can push things. How about Reagan?
- tptacek 13y ago
  For the record: among many other things, Reagan's CIA ran a covert war in Nicaragua, over the direct, statutory(!) objections of congress, in contravention of a law Reagan himself signed. Tens of thousands of people were murdered.
  - hga 13y ago
    While I disagree with you on all of the specifics, I have to ask, if we accept that, what exactly does it have to do with his Administration and the press?
    - skylan_q 13y ago
      Nothing at all. People in tech have this need to bring up how Reagan is the devil. It's very odd because it was a sitting duck presidency, if there ever was one. Hardly a Senate majority for some of the time, no house majority at any point.
      - hga 13y ago
        Heh, I've never heard of a "sitting duck" presidency, but the name fits. It was the first post-Watergate Republican one, and the first to which criminalizing of normal politics was applied. The number of high administration official who were prosecuted on totally bogus grounds was appalling, from Department of Labor Secretary Ray "Which office do I go to get my reputation back?" Donovan (a singularly honest man if the prosecutors couldn't make anything stick to a New York City construction firm (!!!)) to the head of NASA, indicted by a team that didn't have a single expert on the subject in dispute (federal contracting by the team that made a working DIVAD; when they asked to dismiss the charges, the judge wouldn't let them do it without prejudice, i.e. they could not try again). In 20/20 hindsight he says he wouldn't have forced the launch of Challenger ... certainly disrupting the leadership of NASA is going to be without consequences. ADDED: And the press lied through their teeth. E.g. we were constantly regaled with horror stories of vicious budget cuts ... but in the rarefied lingo of the Beltway, a decrease from the automatically rising baseline, even if more nominal or real dollars are spent than last year, is a "cut". But most of all I think they hated how successful and happy he was, even with the Democrats holding so much power. Of course, back then enough of them realized we were facing existential threats from the two areas I've remarked on; the same in terms of threats is true today, but it's less in your face for the moment. But wait until we can no longer run "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see" because we can't maintain zero percent interest rates (which by themselves are crushing so many, especially retirees).
electromagnetic 13y ago
Nixon was also operating at the height of the Cold War, when there may have been a legitimate right to more control over what the press can and can't say or release. Obama is operating at the height of what? Asymmetric warfare where we're basically beating third world peasants into submission. Or maybe the War on Drugs where we're basically beating first world peasants into submission and slavery, whilst turning a complete blind eye to what's only comparable to genocide in a country we share a boarder with. What our government is trying to do is on par with returning us to serfdom. I keep hearing that things are supposed to get better, but it's important to remember; freedom comes after the blade of a guillotine. No one in power is going to stop abusing it, we only have to look at the repeated introduction copyright legislation, time after time after time it gets submitted until it gets broken down and submitted piece by piece and slips under the radar. This will stop when its forcibly stopped, and the longer it takes the greater chance it will be done by violence.
- hga 13y ago
  How about the less inherently violent Pareto "history is a graveyard of aristocracies". We've got something akin to that in our ruling class, and we need a Pareto style circulation of elites to fix it. That doesn't inherently have to be ultra-violent, then again, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of limits our ruling class has in what they're willing to do to retain power. As you specifically note, "on par with returning us to serfdom", which does not strike me as hyperbole.
  - electromagnetic 13y ago
    It sounds hyperbolic, but when you look into the prisoner rates and the amount of non-voting past felons who essentially are stuck in wage slavery at or below minimum wage just to work. The amount of people who are stuck well below the poverty line due to working minimum wage jobs, with zero job security and zero ability to move as unemployment is so high there's less than no guarantee you'll get a job if you do, and the size of the middle class who are frequently living pay check to pay check. > The Domesday Book showed that England comprised 12% freeholders, 35% serfs or villeins, 30% cotters and borders, and 9% slaves. It really doesn't look too far from where we're already at. Although we do have the right to vote who oppresses us... even though we have no way of knowing if the votes are actually representative of the desires of the people what with vote rigging.

tptacek 13y ago

This is the kind of comment one could have written without reading the article. Did you? What do you think about the Rosen case?

DanielBMarkham 13y ago
You can't make a reporter doing his job a crime. ADD: Further details here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5924505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5924505
- tptacek 13y ago
  Rosen hasn't been charged with a crime.
  - jbronn 13y ago
    He was served a search warrant alleging he was part of a criminal conspiracy. This is a prelude to criminal charges. Stop your semantic hysterics.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Ahh, 2013 Hacker News, where the difference between "being charged with a federal crime" and "not being charged with a federal crime" is "semantic hysterics".
      - electromagnetic 13y ago
        Innocent until proven you're against my political beliefs.

_delirium 13y ago

Obama's just the first guy really seeing how far he can push things. How about Reagan?

tptacek 13y ago
For the record: among many other things, Reagan's CIA ran a covert war in Nicaragua, over the direct, statutory(!) objections of congress, in contravention of a law Reagan himself signed. Tens of thousands of people were murdered.
- hga 13y ago
  While I disagree with you on all of the specifics, I have to ask, if we accept that, what exactly does it have to do with his Administration and the press?
  - skylan_q 13y ago
    Nothing at all. People in tech have this need to bring up how Reagan is the devil. It's very odd because it was a sitting duck presidency, if there ever was one. Hardly a Senate majority for some of the time, no house majority at any point.
    - hga 13y ago
      Heh, I've never heard of a "sitting duck" presidency, but the name fits. It was the first post-Watergate Republican one, and the first to which criminalizing of normal politics was applied. The number of high administration official who were prosecuted on totally bogus grounds was appalling, from Department of Labor Secretary Ray "Which office do I go to get my reputation back?" Donovan (a singularly honest man if the prosecutors couldn't make anything stick to a New York City construction firm (!!!)) to the head of NASA, indicted by a team that didn't have a single expert on the subject in dispute (federal contracting by the team that made a working DIVAD; when they asked to dismiss the charges, the judge wouldn't let them do it without prejudice, i.e. they could not try again). In 20/20 hindsight he says he wouldn't have forced the launch of Challenger ... certainly disrupting the leadership of NASA is going to be without consequences. ADDED: And the press lied through their teeth. E.g. we were constantly regaled with horror stories of vicious budget cuts ... but in the rarefied lingo of the Beltway, a decrease from the automatically rising baseline, even if more nominal or real dollars are spent than last year, is a "cut". But most of all I think they hated how successful and happy he was, even with the Democrats holding so much power. Of course, back then enough of them realized we were facing existential threats from the two areas I've remarked on; the same in terms of threats is true today, but it's less in your face for the moment. But wait until we can no longer run "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see" because we can't maintain zero percent interest rates (which by themselves are crushing so many, especially retirees).

electromagnetic 13y ago

Nixon was also operating at the height of the Cold War, when there may have been a legitimate right to more control over what the press can and can't say or release. Obama is operating at the height of what? Asymmetric warfare where we're basically beating third world peasants into submission. Or maybe the War on Drugs where we're basically beating first world peasants into submission and slavery, whilst turning a complete blind eye to what's only comparable to genocide in a country we share a boarder with. What our government is trying to do is on par with returning us to serfdom. I keep hearing that things are supposed to get better, but it's important to remember; freedom comes after the blade of a guillotine. No one in power is going to stop abusing it, we only have to look at the repeated introduction copyright legislation, time after time after time it gets submitted until it gets broken down and submitted piece by piece and slips under the radar. This will stop when its forcibly stopped, and the longer it takes the greater chance it will be done by violence.

hga 13y ago
How about the less inherently violent Pareto "history is a graveyard of aristocracies". We've got something akin to that in our ruling class, and we need a Pareto style circulation of elites to fix it. That doesn't inherently have to be ultra-violent, then again, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of limits our ruling class has in what they're willing to do to retain power. As you specifically note, "on par with returning us to serfdom", which does not strike me as hyperbole.
- electromagnetic 13y ago
  It sounds hyperbolic, but when you look into the prisoner rates and the amount of non-voting past felons who essentially are stuck in wage slavery at or below minimum wage just to work. The amount of people who are stuck well below the poverty line due to working minimum wage jobs, with zero job security and zero ability to move as unemployment is so high there's less than no guarantee you'll get a job if you do, and the size of the middle class who are frequently living pay check to pay check. > The Domesday Book showed that England comprised 12% freeholders, 35% serfs or villeins, 30% cotters and borders, and 9% slaves. It really doesn't look too far from where we're already at. Although we do have the right to vote who oppresses us... even though we have no way of knowing if the votes are actually representative of the desires of the people what with vote rigging.