4 ms·

"Next in importance to personal freedom is immunity from suspicions, and jealous observation. Men may be without restraints upon their liberty: they may pass to

by ferdo 13y ago

"Next in importance to personal freedom is immunity from suspicions, and jealous observation. Men may be without restraints upon their liberty: they may pass to and fro at pleasure: but if their steps are tracked by spies and informers, their words noted down for crimination, their associates watched as conspirators, who shall say that they are free? Nothing is more revolting to Englishmen than the espionage which forms part of the administrative system of continental despotisms. It haunts men like an evil genius, chills their gaiety, restrains their wit, casts a shadow over their friendships, and blights their domestic hearth. The freedom of a country may be measured by its immunity from this baleful agency. Rulers who distrust their own people, must govern in a spirit of absolutism; and suspected subjects will be ever sensible of their bondage." The Constitutional History Of England Vol II (1863), pg. 288 by T. E. May

cinquemb 13y ago
It really saddens me as someone born in the US, that the ideals that are embodied by our constitution are never abstracted (at least by our supposed leaders) to possibly being able to be applied to people outside of the lines drawn by men in our maps. And while it may be true that under current legal statutes x amendment does not apply to y citizens of z countries, hearing it used in arguments to justify the treatment of fellow human beings contrary to the ideals we seek to reinforce throughout the world and of ourselves is pretty repulsive.
- codex 13y ago
  Another perspective is that the rules of war are different from the rules of Main Street, USA. The NSA is on a continual war footing. Its job is to help defend the United States from its enemies. Until war (and terrorism) is abolished, there will always be behaviors which are allowed in war but not in peacetime. For example, warrants are not needed to kill a soldier on the battlefield, nor to search them.
  - ferdo 13y ago
    > The NSA is on a continual war footing. Its job is to help defend the United States from its enemies. The NSA appears to perceive the people it's tasked with the defending - American citizens - as an enemy. It's the natural result of all centralized surveillance states.
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      That's why they outsource it in part to wonderful p̶r̶o̶f̶i̶t̶e̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ patriotic corporations like Booz Allen Hamilton and their private equity owners :D

by ferdo 13y ago

cinquemb 13y ago

It really saddens me as someone born in the US, that the ideals that are embodied by our constitution are never abstracted (at least by our supposed leaders) to possibly being able to be applied to people outside of the lines drawn by men in our maps. And while it may be true that under current legal statutes x amendment does not apply to y citizens of z countries, hearing it used in arguments to justify the treatment of fellow human beings contrary to the ideals we seek to reinforce throughout the world and of ourselves is pretty repulsive.

codex 13y ago
Another perspective is that the rules of war are different from the rules of Main Street, USA. The NSA is on a continual war footing. Its job is to help defend the United States from its enemies. Until war (and terrorism) is abolished, there will always be behaviors which are allowed in war but not in peacetime. For example, warrants are not needed to kill a soldier on the battlefield, nor to search them.
- ferdo 13y ago
  > The NSA is on a continual war footing. Its job is to help defend the United States from its enemies. The NSA appears to perceive the people it's tasked with the defending - American citizens - as an enemy. It's the natural result of all centralized surveillance states.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    That's why they outsource it in part to wonderful p̶r̶o̶f̶i̶t̶e̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ patriotic corporations like Booz Allen Hamilton and their private equity owners :D