6 ms·

It's kind of hard to be a whistleblower without breaking some sort of secrecy law.

eli 13y ago
There actually are whistleblower protections he could have taken advantage of... but it would have meant working within the system (for example, taking his concerns to Congress or the NSA's Inspector General rather than a reporter) and it only applies if he uncovered fraud or illegal activity. AFAIK there isn't any proof that he uncovered anything illegal.
- tptacek 13y ago
  The national security establishment is more or less exempted from the whistleblower statutes.
  - rdl 13y ago
    Going to NSA IG or the PSCI's in Congress are protected (the whole point of NSA IG is internal malfeasance, it's not just for stealing cafeteria trays...). The problem is that route of reporting may be ineffective, and once you start, you'll lose all future access, come under suspicion, and may actually still be charged (the whistleblower stuff helps more with not getting convicted). I was originally thinking "he should have gone to IG/Congress rather than the press", but seeing the Binney/Drake/Wiebe interview where they all had gone through the IG/Congress process themselves, recognized they'd accomplished fuck-all, and supported Snowden's decision to go directly to the press/public, kind of convinced me. I personally might have considered going to someone else in government, other than IG or H/SPSCI -- like to Udall or Rand Paul or maybe even a judge or governor -- as more effective than the "official" channels, but less illegal than a journalist.
    - betterunix 13y ago
      "Going to NSA IG or the PSCI's in Congress are protected" Protected and utterly pointless. Congress already knew what was happening. The NSA's IG is not an unbiased observer. Unfortunately, the official channels are broken here. You have members of Congress talking about how these revelations are just the tip of the iceberg. That means that they know more, that they know details that will shock people, and that they are doing nothing about it. What good would it do to go to them with this information?
      - rdl 13y ago
        Not everyone in Congress knows everything; nor do all federal judges. I agree the NSA IG and PSCI's are essentially insiders, but "deal with this or I will go public" would give the minority members some cover.
      - res0nat0r 13y ago
        Do we know for sure that the charges he is alleging are actually illegal? That I think is the crux of this whole situation. Many people in Congress might know about it and not be doing anything because like we've seen with 'enhanced interrogation techniques', is that the law has been interpreted such that all of this is technically lawful. That looks to be the real problem here.
        timdev2 13y ago
        > Do we know for sure that the charges he is alleging are actually illegal? No. We don't know their legality. As far as I can tell, there have been pseudo-legal rulings on the subject. But the existence, never-mind the substance, of those rulings are classified. Some people have a problem with that.
  - wildster 13y ago
    That didn't work out very well for Thomas Drake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake
    - eli 13y ago
      Well, sort of. All the charges against him were dropped except a single misdemeanor. He got one year probation and community service. A very different set of circumstances than Snowden, though.
      - rdl 13y ago
        And loss of pension (he was 5 years away), is now working in an Apple retail store, etc. Given that he was about as morally upstanding and cautious a whistleblower as I can imagine, it was still a pretty harsh punishment.
  - eli 13y ago
    Most of the regular statues, yes. But the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act specifically covers the national security establishment. I will grant you that it's not the greatest law and I'm not sure I would avail myself of it if in his shoes. It does exist, though.
  - baddox 13y ago
    And all other laws, if they choose to be.
- corford 13y ago
  To see how working within the system went the last time an NSA employee tried to blow the whistle, go and watch these videos: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowd...
- mtgx 13y ago
  Binney tried to do exactly that - and they sent the FBI to raid his house.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Nothing like having a gun pointed at you while you're in the shower to say "We aren't brownshirts, we are just so excited to hear your genuine criticism; please speak your mind freely."
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Binney, Drake, Radack, Edmunds, Tice, how many people have to try and fail with the silly "legit" whistleblower farce before people realize that it doesn't work, and isn't ever going to work.
- wisty 13y ago
  AFAIK, other whistleblowers in the NSA have tried. The fact that it was all swept under the rug may have made Snowden consider a more rash course of action.
- Glyptodon 13y ago
  Trying to work with the system doesn't work. See the case Billy Malone and the National Park Service, etc. You can go straight to the inspector general, they'll find that someone's life was unjustly ruined, and then sweep it under the rug after writing a report. (http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=12391155859919&Page=book http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=12391155859919&Page=book, http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.7/a-misguided-investigation-ends-an-era-in-arizona/print_view http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.7/a-misguided-investigation-end..., etc. for reference.)
- Andrew_Quentin 13y ago
  Arguably the whole programme is illegal.

eli 13y ago

There actually are whistleblower protections he could have taken advantage of... but it would have meant working within the system (for example, taking his concerns to Congress or the NSA's Inspector General rather than a reporter) and it only applies if he uncovered fraud or illegal activity. AFAIK there isn't any proof that he uncovered anything illegal.

tptacek 13y ago
The national security establishment is more or less exempted from the whistleblower statutes.
- rdl 13y ago
  Going to NSA IG or the PSCI's in Congress are protected (the whole point of NSA IG is internal malfeasance, it's not just for stealing cafeteria trays...). The problem is that route of reporting may be ineffective, and once you start, you'll lose all future access, come under suspicion, and may actually still be charged (the whistleblower stuff helps more with not getting convicted). I was originally thinking "he should have gone to IG/Congress rather than the press", but seeing the Binney/Drake/Wiebe interview where they all had gone through the IG/Congress process themselves, recognized they'd accomplished fuck-all, and supported Snowden's decision to go directly to the press/public, kind of convinced me. I personally might have considered going to someone else in government, other than IG or H/SPSCI -- like to Udall or Rand Paul or maybe even a judge or governor -- as more effective than the "official" channels, but less illegal than a journalist.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    "Going to NSA IG or the PSCI's in Congress are protected" Protected and utterly pointless. Congress already knew what was happening. The NSA's IG is not an unbiased observer. Unfortunately, the official channels are broken here. You have members of Congress talking about how these revelations are just the tip of the iceberg. That means that they know more, that they know details that will shock people, and that they are doing nothing about it. What good would it do to go to them with this information?
    - rdl 13y ago
      Not everyone in Congress knows everything; nor do all federal judges. I agree the NSA IG and PSCI's are essentially insiders, but "deal with this or I will go public" would give the minority members some cover.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      Do we know for sure that the charges he is alleging are actually illegal? That I think is the crux of this whole situation. Many people in Congress might know about it and not be doing anything because like we've seen with 'enhanced interrogation techniques', is that the law has been interpreted such that all of this is technically lawful. That looks to be the real problem here.
      - timdev2 13y ago
        > Do we know for sure that the charges he is alleging are actually illegal? No. We don't know their legality. As far as I can tell, there have been pseudo-legal rulings on the subject. But the existence, never-mind the substance, of those rulings are classified. Some people have a problem with that.
- wildster 13y ago
  That didn't work out very well for Thomas Drake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Andrews_Drake
  - eli 13y ago
    Well, sort of. All the charges against him were dropped except a single misdemeanor. He got one year probation and community service. A very different set of circumstances than Snowden, though.
    - rdl 13y ago
      And loss of pension (he was 5 years away), is now working in an Apple retail store, etc. Given that he was about as morally upstanding and cautious a whistleblower as I can imagine, it was still a pretty harsh punishment.
- eli 13y ago
  Most of the regular statues, yes. But the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act specifically covers the national security establishment. I will grant you that it's not the greatest law and I'm not sure I would avail myself of it if in his shoes. It does exist, though.
- baddox 13y ago
  And all other laws, if they choose to be.
corford 13y ago
To see how working within the system went the last time an NSA employee tried to blow the whistle, go and watch these videos: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowd...
mtgx 13y ago
Binney tried to do exactly that - and they sent the FBI to raid his house.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Nothing like having a gun pointed at you while you're in the shower to say "We aren't brownshirts, we are just so excited to hear your genuine criticism; please speak your mind freely."
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Binney, Drake, Radack, Edmunds, Tice, how many people have to try and fail with the silly "legit" whistleblower farce before people realize that it doesn't work, and isn't ever going to work.
wisty 13y ago
AFAIK, other whistleblowers in the NSA have tried. The fact that it was all swept under the rug may have made Snowden consider a more rash course of action.
Glyptodon 13y ago
Trying to work with the system doesn't work. See the case Billy Malone and the National Park Service, etc. You can go straight to the inspector general, they'll find that someone's life was unjustly ruined, and then sweep it under the rug after writing a report. (http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=12391155859919&Page=book http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=12391155859919&Page=book, http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.7/a-misguided-investigation-ends-an-era-in-arizona/print_view http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.7/a-misguided-investigation-end..., etc. for reference.)
Andrew_Quentin 13y ago
Arguably the whole programme is illegal.