3 ms·

Passwords are a terrible way to authenticate people anyway. The sooner we start using certificates and smartcards, the better.

blake8086 13y ago
Aren't both of those a "something you have"?
- betterunix 13y ago
  Technically, a smartcard is both something you have (the card) and something you know (the PIN). Even if there were no PIN, smartcards are better than passwords: 1. The public key stored by the server cannot be used for authentication. That means that hacking a server will not give the attacker access to anything beyond that server. 2. More randomness; there are no dictionary attacks on secret keys, and brute force attacks are hard to mount. 3. Defense against phishing: the attacker cannot trick you into giving your secret key, because the card does not export secret keys. All of the above address the biggest problems we have with passwords right now. You are not likely to be tortured for your card or your PIN, just like you are not likely to be tortured for your password. Sure, smartcards come with their own set of problems, like dealing with lost/stolen/destroyed cards; yet these are not terribly hard to solve (banks are able to deal with lost/stolen/destroyed credit cards). The benefits far outweigh the cost.
- DanBC 13y ago
  For the attack profile "something you have" is often pretty good. It protects you against criminal gangs getting pasword files.
acdha 13y ago
For the attack mentioned above, only one of those is actually useful. Certificates are a complete distraction from what you really need – some sort of multi-factor authentication.
- emn13 13y ago
  Certificates (I'm assuming assymetric encryption) are better than passwords in that they aren't passed on to the receiving site. This means that sites can build databases of public keys rather than passwords, and that an attacker compromising such a site, rather than getting a password file that he can reuse all over the place, only gets a fairly useless public key which would let him identify the user. And of course there aren't any dictionary attacks for keys either. Which isn't to say that multi-factor auth isn't a good idea, it's just that certificates are still better than passwords.
  - acdha 13y ago
    Certificates make no difference in the threat scenario we were discussing: if I have enough access to your computer to pilfer passwords, I can snag your certificates at the same time.

blake8086 13y ago

Aren't both of those a "something you have"?

betterunix 13y ago
Technically, a smartcard is both something you have (the card) and something you know (the PIN). Even if there were no PIN, smartcards are better than passwords: 1. The public key stored by the server cannot be used for authentication. That means that hacking a server will not give the attacker access to anything beyond that server. 2. More randomness; there are no dictionary attacks on secret keys, and brute force attacks are hard to mount. 3. Defense against phishing: the attacker cannot trick you into giving your secret key, because the card does not export secret keys. All of the above address the biggest problems we have with passwords right now. You are not likely to be tortured for your card or your PIN, just like you are not likely to be tortured for your password. Sure, smartcards come with their own set of problems, like dealing with lost/stolen/destroyed cards; yet these are not terribly hard to solve (banks are able to deal with lost/stolen/destroyed credit cards). The benefits far outweigh the cost.
DanBC 13y ago
For the attack profile "something you have" is often pretty good. It protects you against criminal gangs getting pasword files.

acdha 13y ago

For the attack mentioned above, only one of those is actually useful. Certificates are a complete distraction from what you really need – some sort of multi-factor authentication.

emn13 13y ago
Certificates (I'm assuming assymetric encryption) are better than passwords in that they aren't passed on to the receiving site. This means that sites can build databases of public keys rather than passwords, and that an attacker compromising such a site, rather than getting a password file that he can reuse all over the place, only gets a fairly useless public key which would let him identify the user. And of course there aren't any dictionary attacks for keys either. Which isn't to say that multi-factor auth isn't a good idea, it's just that certificates are still better than passwords.
- acdha 13y ago
  Certificates make no difference in the threat scenario we were discussing: if I have enough access to your computer to pilfer passwords, I can snag your certificates at the same time.