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CIA faulted for choosing Amazon cloud over IBM

34 points by brokenparser 13y ago

Zikes 13y ago
If the price is the primary sticking point in this, I don't see why it's an issue. Clearly there are several more factors involved in this project, otherwise I could step in and quote $1m less than IBM and be considered equally viable.
- eli 13y ago
  The GAO upheld two portions of the IBM protest. One claim was that the CIA failed to evaluate prices for a possible task provided for in the contract. The second sustained protest was that a software-security requirement in the contract was waived by the CIA only for Amazon during negotiations. The GAO denied IBM's argument that the CIA didn't properly evaluate Amazon's past performance given certain service outages that occurred with Amazon's cloud service in 2012. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578529681364318470.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732479890457852...
- calbear81 13y ago
  Actually, I believe this is how many public entities award contracts. My friend worked for the parks department in a major US city and when they needed to build something, the lowest bidder got the contract automatically as long as they were qualified/approved regardless of whether or not they were as competent as other vendors.
  - gohrt 13y ago
    Right, and the procurers write the contract to require features that are oddly specific to the preferred vendor's operation, to avoid undercuts by competitors.
fennecfoxen 13y ago
Yeah, if anyone at GAO should happen to ask, I'd pick Amazon over IBM for a cloud solution on technical merits too.
8ig8 13y ago
"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" ;) Edit: Sorry, couldn't resist. Here's a little more meat for the comment: http://corporatevisions.com/blog/2007/06/11/no-one-ever-got-fired-for-buying-ibm/ http://corporatevisions.com/blog/2007/06/11/no-one-ever-got-...
inzax 13y ago
This has nothing to do with prices or wrongful chosen clouds. This has everything to do with Amazon encroaching on IBMs old business with the government. Boeing did the same thing and used the same excuse when they didn't want Airbus coming into the United States and encroaching on its territory. Mark my works. IBM will win because they have deep pockets with the politicians. That's who will decide this fate, not the CIA. Humble ex employee of Northrop Grumman on the front line of the Airbus situation.
- Already__Taken 13y ago
  Wait what's going on with the airbus situation? It sounds analogous to what spaceX will be up against in some coming years with US and European space companies / governments.
ceautery 13y ago
Yeah, seriously. If IBM is good at one thing, it's selling solutions to entities antagonistic to their citizens [1]. [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II
daven11 13y ago
For those who don't live in Brisbane. The brisbane times is a free paper put in peoples letter boxes, best known for it's local restaurant reviews and fashion. I wouldn't take it's views on overseas IT procurement very seriously :-)
malandrew 13y ago
Even if the Amazon service was more expensive, there is more to choosing a service than price. Assuming Amazon's service is a carbon copy clone of their AWS services, then the decision is a no brain so long as the prices are at least in the same ballpark. AFAICT IBM is going to create a custom solution for the USG, which carries much greater operational risk relative to a clone of AWS. Furthermore, all the community, tutorials and open source software that already exists in the AWS ecosystem is a massive asset that is very difficult to price a a major contributor to the value Amazon will provide the USG.

34 points by brokenparser 13y ago

Zikes 13y ago

If the price is the primary sticking point in this, I don't see why it's an issue. Clearly there are several more factors involved in this project, otherwise I could step in and quote $1m less than IBM and be considered equally viable.

eli 13y ago
The GAO upheld two portions of the IBM protest. One claim was that the CIA failed to evaluate prices for a possible task provided for in the contract. The second sustained protest was that a software-security requirement in the contract was waived by the CIA only for Amazon during negotiations. The GAO denied IBM's argument that the CIA didn't properly evaluate Amazon's past performance given certain service outages that occurred with Amazon's cloud service in 2012. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578529681364318470.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732479890457852...
calbear81 13y ago
Actually, I believe this is how many public entities award contracts. My friend worked for the parks department in a major US city and when they needed to build something, the lowest bidder got the contract automatically as long as they were qualified/approved regardless of whether or not they were as competent as other vendors.
- gohrt 13y ago
  Right, and the procurers write the contract to require features that are oddly specific to the preferred vendor's operation, to avoid undercuts by competitors.

fennecfoxen 13y ago

Yeah, if anyone at GAO should happen to ask, I'd pick Amazon over IBM for a cloud solution on technical merits too.

8ig8 13y ago

"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" ;) Edit: Sorry, couldn't resist. Here's a little more meat for the comment: http://corporatevisions.com/blog/2007/06/11/no-one-ever-got-fired-for-buying-ibm/ http://corporatevisions.com/blog/2007/06/11/no-one-ever-got-...

inzax 13y ago

This has nothing to do with prices or wrongful chosen clouds. This has everything to do with Amazon encroaching on IBMs old business with the government. Boeing did the same thing and used the same excuse when they didn't want Airbus coming into the United States and encroaching on its territory. Mark my works. IBM will win because they have deep pockets with the politicians. That's who will decide this fate, not the CIA. Humble ex employee of Northrop Grumman on the front line of the Airbus situation.

Already__Taken 13y ago
Wait what's going on with the airbus situation? It sounds analogous to what spaceX will be up against in some coming years with US and European space companies / governments.

ceautery 13y ago

Yeah, seriously. If IBM is good at one thing, it's selling solutions to entities antagonistic to their citizens [1]. [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II

daven11 13y ago

For those who don't live in Brisbane. The brisbane times is a free paper put in peoples letter boxes, best known for it's local restaurant reviews and fashion. I wouldn't take it's views on overseas IT procurement very seriously :-)

malandrew 13y ago

Even if the Amazon service was more expensive, there is more to choosing a service than price. Assuming Amazon's service is a carbon copy clone of their AWS services, then the decision is a no brain so long as the prices are at least in the same ballpark. AFAICT IBM is going to create a custom solution for the USG, which carries much greater operational risk relative to a clone of AWS. Furthermore, all the community, tutorials and open source software that already exists in the AWS ecosystem is a massive asset that is very difficult to price a a major contributor to the value Amazon will provide the USG.