6 ms·

The phrase you're looking for is "enthusiastic consent". You're not looking for a signed contract. You're looking to have absolutely no doubt in your mind that

by Cushman 13y ago

The phrase you're looking for is "enthusiastic consent". You're not looking for a signed contract. You're looking to have absolutely no doubt in your mind that your partner genuinely wants to do what you want to do. That just happens to be about a thousand times easier if you can talk about it like a (sexy) grownup. Believe it or not, one goal of this policy is more, and better sex.

angersock 13y ago
I don't disagree that being able to talk openly about these things is good. I assert, though, that the climate today makes it very treacherous to do so--and that even if it didn't, there still is a chicken-and-egg problem in learning how to do it. Vocaroo and similar services seem to be a starting point for folks these days. Honestly it isn't something you just know how to do (especially if you are prone to over-analysis of your actions), and the chance of making a lot of trouble for yourself is non-trivial.
figglesonrails 13y ago
"No doubt in your mind that..." != "It is true that..." This is the problem with your argument. I'll admit it, I don't explicitly "ask consent" and there have been times where there was "no doubt in my mind", and yet, I was rejected. :( But if I was rejected, then I've clearly committed sexual assault in the most strict sense. It's called "misreading a situation". You may think something is enthusiastic consent, but it isn't. Hence, why I will continue to ignore your advice and "live dangerously" by attempting to interpret the situation and predict the other partner's desires by other subjective and unreliable means such as body language and the nebulous concept of "where we are in our relationship".
- Cushman 13y ago
  Just as long as you understand that in this context, "live dangerously" means that you might rape people without meaning to, just because you couldn't think of a sexy way to say, "So do you wanna fuck?" That's an easy choice for me.
  - tomp 13y ago
    It's highly inappropriate for you to refer to "kissing someone", even if it's unwelcome, as "rape". Sexual assault, that's ok, even though I don't agree with it. But calling it rape is very disrespectful, maybe even insulting, to the victims of actual, violent penis-in-vagina rape.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      "violent penis-in-vagina" rape is not the only kind. Most people completely forget that more men are raped every day in the US than women.
      - figglesonrails 13y ago
        Men more than women? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, but [citation needed]. I've never heard of that being true, so I'd like more information. I mean, the fact that we typical think of rape as man-on-woman kind of speaks to our perceived frequency, yes?
        jaredsohn 13y ago
        From some googling, here's an article from 2008 that suggests this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/21/us-more-men-raped-than-women http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/... Essentially, it says that prison rape accounts for the majority of rape in the US and those victims are predominantly male.
        figglesonrails 13y ago
        Ah prison rape. Yes, I hadn't considered that, but that would make sense. I'm not sure that prison statistics are really relevant to the original topic though, as far as defining what typical interactions are like, but does seem like interesting trivia.
  - figglesonrails 13y ago
theorique 13y ago
One of the key questions is, can consent be given via physical actions and body language? Or does it have to be given via verbal instructions? If a girl is touching you back, tugging at your clothes, unzipping your fly - is that some form of communication? Or is it meaningless?

by Cushman 13y ago

angersock 13y ago

I don't disagree that being able to talk openly about these things is good. I assert, though, that the climate today makes it very treacherous to do so--and that even if it didn't, there still is a chicken-and-egg problem in learning how to do it. Vocaroo and similar services seem to be a starting point for folks these days. Honestly it isn't something you just know how to do (especially if you are prone to over-analysis of your actions), and the chance of making a lot of trouble for yourself is non-trivial.

figglesonrails 13y ago

"No doubt in your mind that..." != "It is true that..." This is the problem with your argument. I'll admit it, I don't explicitly "ask consent" and there have been times where there was "no doubt in my mind", and yet, I was rejected. :( But if I was rejected, then I've clearly committed sexual assault in the most strict sense. It's called "misreading a situation". You may think something is enthusiastic consent, but it isn't. Hence, why I will continue to ignore your advice and "live dangerously" by attempting to interpret the situation and predict the other partner's desires by other subjective and unreliable means such as body language and the nebulous concept of "where we are in our relationship".

Cushman 13y ago
Just as long as you understand that in this context, "live dangerously" means that you might rape people without meaning to, just because you couldn't think of a sexy way to say, "So do you wanna fuck?" That's an easy choice for me.
- tomp 13y ago
  It's highly inappropriate for you to refer to "kissing someone", even if it's unwelcome, as "rape". Sexual assault, that's ok, even though I don't agree with it. But calling it rape is very disrespectful, maybe even insulting, to the victims of actual, violent penis-in-vagina rape.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    "violent penis-in-vagina" rape is not the only kind. Most people completely forget that more men are raped every day in the US than women.
    - figglesonrails 13y ago
      Men more than women? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, but [citation needed]. I've never heard of that being true, so I'd like more information. I mean, the fact that we typical think of rape as man-on-woman kind of speaks to our perceived frequency, yes?
      - jaredsohn 13y ago
        From some googling, here's an article from 2008 that suggests this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/21/us-more-men-raped-than-women http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/... Essentially, it says that prison rape accounts for the majority of rape in the US and those victims are predominantly male.
        figglesonrails 13y ago
        Ah prison rape. Yes, I hadn't considered that, but that would make sense. I'm not sure that prison statistics are really relevant to the original topic though, as far as defining what typical interactions are like, but does seem like interesting trivia.
- figglesonrails 13y ago

theorique 13y ago

One of the key questions is, can consent be given via physical actions and body language? Or does it have to be given via verbal instructions? If a girl is touching you back, tugging at your clothes, unzipping your fly - is that some form of communication? Or is it meaningless?