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"Take your exposed penis, and thrust it into her vagina. Don't wait for her to put it in for you. Be dominant." That could be instructions for rape. Or it coul

"Take your exposed penis, and thrust it into her vagina. Don't wait for her to put it in for you. Be dominant." That could be instructions for rape. Or it could be instructions for the kind of a sex that millions of straight couples have every day. It all depends on the quote's context, right? Right? So stop taking quotes out of context from the author. > If women are loudly saying "This is assault.", you need to take them at their word, because it is their judgment, it is their consent that matters. Not yours. Your language is intentionally misleading. What matters is the woman with whom you're interacting. Feminist internet commenters can neither give consent nor take it away. And the author is severely explicit about respecting consent. His quotes are being butchered.

angersock 13y ago
"Take your exposed penis, and thrust it into her vagina." wait wait wait that's what ive been doing wrong this whole time? and here i was thinking i was just sterile! EDIT: Really, folks? No sense of humor here sometimes, I swear. Not to worry--the NSA is keeping record of jokes for all posterity!
- driverdan 13y ago
  This isn't Reddit. Pointless humor posts are discouraged and downvoted.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Eh, it depends, honestly. HN shouldn't be srs bznz all the time.
jmduke 13y ago
Or it could be instructions for the kind of a sex that millions of straight couples have every day. It all depends on the quote's context, right? This is a book on seduction, not a book on long-term relationships. I'm not defending the OP, but don't be intentionally dense.
- Samuel_Michon 13y ago
  Actually, the book has an entire chapter on long-term relationships and compatibility.
- abstractbill 13y ago
  You can (and probably should) seduce someone you've been married to for years.
- tomp 13y ago
  So how do you get into a long-term relationship if not by seducing your partner?
  - lotharbot 13y ago
    There are long-term relationships where sex is one of the later steps, after there's already some form of long-term commitment. There are a lot of things that can happen well before the "seduction" step -- talking, mutual interests, shared experiences, and so on.
gregd 13y ago
The bullshit excuse I keep seeing about "taking quotes out of context" is making me mad. The author himself, removed those specific passages from his Reddit thread when the shit storm started brewing. If he worded what he wanted to say correctly and with the proper context, why remove them?
- tomp 13y ago
  Actually, he didn't. Open [1] and search for "permission" and "dick". It's all right there. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_game_part_7_physical_escalation_sex/ http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_...
  - gregd 13y ago
    Actually he had. Those passages were not there and clicking on your link led to those passages having been removed at one point at the height of the shit storm.
    - creativeembassy 13y ago
      What are YOU looking at? I pulled open the link and searched for "permission". It's the second use of the word. The entire passage is right there.
    - gregd 13y ago
      @creativeembassy - Jesus, are you being deliberately obtuse? The passages WEREN'T there at the height of the controversy (i.e.: they'd been removed). They ARE there now.
- 300bps 13y ago
  >If he worded what he wanted to say correctly and with the proper context, why remove them? Why refuse to speak to the police without an attorney present if you have nothing to hide? Your question is no more fair than that one. If I were stirring up a "shit storm" by offending people about a hot-button topic I would certainly start deleting everything I could. Seriously, the guy got a measly $16,000 for this and people were threatening to ruin his life over it. Regardless of whether what I did was wrong or not I would've deleted it all, refunded the $16,000 and disappeared for a while.
malandrew 13y ago
"That could be instructions for rape. Or it could be instructions for the kind of a sex that millions of straight couples have every day. It all depends on the quote's context, right? Exactly. I highly recommend anyone that disagrees or doesn't believe this statement to watch the interviews commonly found at the end of any BDSM kink.com videos. Those interviews at the end are enlightening for anyone with a narrow vanilla view of how sex should be. Different sexual practices and preferences are really no different than the spectrum of music preferences out there and equally valid.
- king_jester 13y ago
  Folks into BDSM are (or should be) overwhelmingly clear about consent, pre-negotiating their play and having things like safe words. That is worlds apart from what the project is advocating, which is to take actions without pre-negotiated consent and to ignore objections made by your partner. Anybody in the scene will tell you that engaging in that kind of shit without clearing it ahead of time (esp. way ahead of time in a non-sexual situation) is someone who is committing real actual rape.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    I completely agree. The point I was trying to make is that there are wildly different variations of what is and is not consensual behavior. For folks who actively participate in the BDSM community the social norms are very much in favor of clear, adult, responsible communication. However, there exist lots of men and women who have inclinations towards BDSM and are turned on by BDSM practices who have never been introduced to the community and have not learned these "best practices" in terms of communication. This means that there are many men and women who enjoy and like aggressive sexual advances who have never been taught how to communicate their interests as an adult, and that entire population of people who are inexperienced create a grey area. BDSM and other non-vanilla interests going mainstream would go a long way to raising the general level of discourse and communication about sex in general. Just to be clear, please don't take my comment as excusing the problems people have raised here, but as simply an impartial anthropological description of the reality of the world.

angersock 13y ago

"Take your exposed penis, and thrust it into her vagina." wait wait wait that's what ive been doing wrong this whole time? and here i was thinking i was just sterile! EDIT: Really, folks? No sense of humor here sometimes, I swear. Not to worry--the NSA is keeping record of jokes for all posterity!

driverdan 13y ago
This isn't Reddit. Pointless humor posts are discouraged and downvoted.
- angersock 13y ago
  Eh, it depends, honestly. HN shouldn't be srs bznz all the time.

jmduke 13y ago

Or it could be instructions for the kind of a sex that millions of straight couples have every day. It all depends on the quote's context, right? This is a book on seduction, not a book on long-term relationships. I'm not defending the OP, but don't be intentionally dense.

Samuel_Michon 13y ago
Actually, the book has an entire chapter on long-term relationships and compatibility.
abstractbill 13y ago
You can (and probably should) seduce someone you've been married to for years.
tomp 13y ago
So how do you get into a long-term relationship if not by seducing your partner?
- lotharbot 13y ago
  There are long-term relationships where sex is one of the later steps, after there's already some form of long-term commitment. There are a lot of things that can happen well before the "seduction" step -- talking, mutual interests, shared experiences, and so on.

gregd 13y ago

The bullshit excuse I keep seeing about "taking quotes out of context" is making me mad. The author himself, removed those specific passages from his Reddit thread when the shit storm started brewing. If he worded what he wanted to say correctly and with the proper context, why remove them?

tomp 13y ago
Actually, he didn't. Open [1] and search for "permission" and "dick". It's all right there. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_game_part_7_physical_escalation_sex/ http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_...
- gregd 13y ago
  Actually he had. Those passages were not there and clicking on your link led to those passages having been removed at one point at the height of the shit storm.
  - creativeembassy 13y ago
    What are YOU looking at? I pulled open the link and searched for "permission". It's the second use of the word. The entire passage is right there.
  - gregd 13y ago
    @creativeembassy - Jesus, are you being deliberately obtuse? The passages WEREN'T there at the height of the controversy (i.e.: they'd been removed). They ARE there now.
300bps 13y ago
>If he worded what he wanted to say correctly and with the proper context, why remove them? Why refuse to speak to the police without an attorney present if you have nothing to hide? Your question is no more fair than that one. If I were stirring up a "shit storm" by offending people about a hot-button topic I would certainly start deleting everything I could. Seriously, the guy got a measly $16,000 for this and people were threatening to ruin his life over it. Regardless of whether what I did was wrong or not I would've deleted it all, refunded the $16,000 and disappeared for a while.

malandrew 13y ago

"That could be instructions for rape. Or it could be instructions for the kind of a sex that millions of straight couples have every day. It all depends on the quote's context, right? Exactly. I highly recommend anyone that disagrees or doesn't believe this statement to watch the interviews commonly found at the end of any BDSM kink.com videos. Those interviews at the end are enlightening for anyone with a narrow vanilla view of how sex should be. Different sexual practices and preferences are really no different than the spectrum of music preferences out there and equally valid.

king_jester 13y ago
Folks into BDSM are (or should be) overwhelmingly clear about consent, pre-negotiating their play and having things like safe words. That is worlds apart from what the project is advocating, which is to take actions without pre-negotiated consent and to ignore objections made by your partner. Anybody in the scene will tell you that engaging in that kind of shit without clearing it ahead of time (esp. way ahead of time in a non-sexual situation) is someone who is committing real actual rape.
- malandrew 13y ago
  I completely agree. The point I was trying to make is that there are wildly different variations of what is and is not consensual behavior. For folks who actively participate in the BDSM community the social norms are very much in favor of clear, adult, responsible communication. However, there exist lots of men and women who have inclinations towards BDSM and are turned on by BDSM practices who have never been introduced to the community and have not learned these "best practices" in terms of communication. This means that there are many men and women who enjoy and like aggressive sexual advances who have never been taught how to communicate their interests as an adult, and that entire population of people who are inexperienced create a grey area. BDSM and other non-vanilla interests going mainstream would go a long way to raising the general level of discourse and communication about sex in general. Just to be clear, please don't take my comment as excusing the problems people have raised here, but as simply an impartial anthropological description of the reality of the world.