5 ms·

It's a good job the "pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it" advice comes in the section of things you do after you're hundreds of mo

It's a good job the "pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it" advice comes in the section of things you do after you're hundreds of moves down the line and you're alone in an intimate setting with a girl, after a number of dates then. The counter-article writer doesn't make clear that he's picked quotes from all over the guide, they aren't all "the first thing you should do" quotes

scarmig 13y ago
”5) Get CLOSE to her, damn it! To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close! ” “All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.” “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” I really can't believe I'm getting into this argument when a much more interesting discussion is whether platforms have a responsibility to be open to all comers, but alas. You boys need a lesson in basic empathy. Imagine you're in a bar, and a super built gay guy reeking of booze comes up to you and sits uncomfortably close to you. His face is inches away from yours but as you try to pull away he scoots himself forward. His hand brushes lightly on yours. After a couple minutes of ignoring your obvious lack of interest he places his hand on your inner thigh, which you brush away and tell him he's being a creep, and walk away to a different area. But he KNOWS that even as you reject his advances you're really getting turned on, that you're aroused physically and psychologically. So he follows you, sits next to you, and picks you up and puts you on his lap. Now, don't skip that scenario: I want you to stop and think about it in detail. How would it make you feel? Do you feel turned on? Do you feel violated?
- Helianthus 13y ago
  >You boys need a lesson in basic empathy. Don't talk down to me. >Now, don't skip that scenario: I want you to stop and think about it in detail. How would it make you feel? Do you feel turned on? Do you feel violated? I take control of the situation by removing myself from the situation or making a scene. And I get over it. Look, I'm queer and I'm actually pretty sympathetic to the anti-seddit et al crowd. But the notion that I'm supposed to care about every person's feelings around me is nonsensical. It's exactly the kind of sentiment that you're violating by lecturing your audience. You're _deliberately_ provoking an uncomfortable reaction and prioritizing your own emotions above those of others. And I'm going to tell you to shove off, and get over it. This isn't about rape, the violent action and definable crime. It's about communication in a social space. And you can't communicate if you can't aggress, as you have _just demonstrated_.
  - scarmig 13y ago
    There is obviously a world of difference between verbal aggressing and physical aggressing. Verbally, different situations call for different things: when people need to know that what they're arguing for is unacceptable in a very bad way, you speak to them with contempt. The hardcore PUA crowd will shake it off, but people at its periphery better understand that it's a bad thing. But physically, aggressing against someone's physical boundaries is wrong, and it's always wrong. Nearly that exact scenario has happened to me. Multiple times: in bars, people hounding me playing a non-consensual game of grabass. In a crowded bus, a guy continually rubbed his hand against my hand despite my trying to move away and escape him. That's bad, and you're a bad person if you think it's acceptable. Comparing "being mean to people online" to sexual assault is ridiculous and offensive.
    - Helianthus 13y ago
      >There is obviously a world of difference between verbal aggressing and physical aggressing. That's cute, honey. Why don't you leave the real talk to us men? I hope you see my point, but to make it more clear: boundaries are boundaries, and disrespect is disrespect. You are making an argument about magnitude, and I am making an argument about conflict. Now I'm going to break a rule about respecting victims, and I hope you respect that it's for the purposes of argument: >In a crowded bus, a guy continually rubbed his hand against my hand despite my trying to move away and escape him. So shout at him. Lay into him like you're laying into me ("you're a bad person if you think it's acceptable"--as if I even said such a thing!) and make it devastatingly clear that you won't stand for it. You don't owe anything to the status quo, the peace of mind of other people on the bus, the rules of decorum, _anything._ It's not a solution because it's unrealistic due to inherited gender roles blah blah (and don't lay into me about _that_, Ms. "you boys"), but I really wish more women were just _loud_ about things like this. I _like_ loud women.
king_jester 13y ago
It doesn't matter how many dates you've been on, if you do this and the person didn't want that you are committing an assault. You don't get a license to do something just because you invested some amount of time or energy into dating, saying otherwise is a direct promotion of rape (remember, the majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the survivor).
- rlt 13y ago
  That advice is also for after you've been (consensually) kissing, fondling, fingering, etc. At some point the meaning of "sexual assault" will be so diluted it's meaningless.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    > At some point the meaning of "sexual assault" will be so diluted it's meaningless. Sexual assault is crystal clear, you can do whatever you want with your partner(s) with consent, nobody cares at that point. The minute you take past activity as a license to do what you want without someone's permission is the minute you cross the line into assault.
kamjam 13y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoI3O2HE9qg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoI3O2HE9qg Reminds me of this comedian. In one of his clips he talks about how he hates people recording his gigs on mobile phones etc, etc because then they are free to selectively show parts of a skit: http://youtu.be/Z3fZutYufGE?t=26m15s http://youtu.be/Z3fZutYufGE?t=26m15s Context means everything.

scarmig 13y ago

”5) Get CLOSE to her, damn it! To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close! ” “All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.” “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” I really can't believe I'm getting into this argument when a much more interesting discussion is whether platforms have a responsibility to be open to all comers, but alas. You boys need a lesson in basic empathy. Imagine you're in a bar, and a super built gay guy reeking of booze comes up to you and sits uncomfortably close to you. His face is inches away from yours but as you try to pull away he scoots himself forward. His hand brushes lightly on yours. After a couple minutes of ignoring your obvious lack of interest he places his hand on your inner thigh, which you brush away and tell him he's being a creep, and walk away to a different area. But he KNOWS that even as you reject his advances you're really getting turned on, that you're aroused physically and psychologically. So he follows you, sits next to you, and picks you up and puts you on his lap. Now, don't skip that scenario: I want you to stop and think about it in detail. How would it make you feel? Do you feel turned on? Do you feel violated?

Helianthus 13y ago
>You boys need a lesson in basic empathy. Don't talk down to me. >Now, don't skip that scenario: I want you to stop and think about it in detail. How would it make you feel? Do you feel turned on? Do you feel violated? I take control of the situation by removing myself from the situation or making a scene. And I get over it. Look, I'm queer and I'm actually pretty sympathetic to the anti-seddit et al crowd. But the notion that I'm supposed to care about every person's feelings around me is nonsensical. It's exactly the kind of sentiment that you're violating by lecturing your audience. You're _deliberately_ provoking an uncomfortable reaction and prioritizing your own emotions above those of others. And I'm going to tell you to shove off, and get over it. This isn't about rape, the violent action and definable crime. It's about communication in a social space. And you can't communicate if you can't aggress, as you have _just demonstrated_.
- scarmig 13y ago
  There is obviously a world of difference between verbal aggressing and physical aggressing. Verbally, different situations call for different things: when people need to know that what they're arguing for is unacceptable in a very bad way, you speak to them with contempt. The hardcore PUA crowd will shake it off, but people at its periphery better understand that it's a bad thing. But physically, aggressing against someone's physical boundaries is wrong, and it's always wrong. Nearly that exact scenario has happened to me. Multiple times: in bars, people hounding me playing a non-consensual game of grabass. In a crowded bus, a guy continually rubbed his hand against my hand despite my trying to move away and escape him. That's bad, and you're a bad person if you think it's acceptable. Comparing "being mean to people online" to sexual assault is ridiculous and offensive.
  - Helianthus 13y ago
    >There is obviously a world of difference between verbal aggressing and physical aggressing. That's cute, honey. Why don't you leave the real talk to us men? I hope you see my point, but to make it more clear: boundaries are boundaries, and disrespect is disrespect. You are making an argument about magnitude, and I am making an argument about conflict. Now I'm going to break a rule about respecting victims, and I hope you respect that it's for the purposes of argument: >In a crowded bus, a guy continually rubbed his hand against my hand despite my trying to move away and escape him. So shout at him. Lay into him like you're laying into me ("you're a bad person if you think it's acceptable"--as if I even said such a thing!) and make it devastatingly clear that you won't stand for it. You don't owe anything to the status quo, the peace of mind of other people on the bus, the rules of decorum, _anything._ It's not a solution because it's unrealistic due to inherited gender roles blah blah (and don't lay into me about _that_, Ms. "you boys"), but I really wish more women were just _loud_ about things like this. I _like_ loud women.

king_jester 13y ago

It doesn't matter how many dates you've been on, if you do this and the person didn't want that you are committing an assault. You don't get a license to do something just because you invested some amount of time or energy into dating, saying otherwise is a direct promotion of rape (remember, the majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the survivor).

rlt 13y ago
That advice is also for after you've been (consensually) kissing, fondling, fingering, etc. At some point the meaning of "sexual assault" will be so diluted it's meaningless.
- king_jester 13y ago
  > At some point the meaning of "sexual assault" will be so diluted it's meaningless. Sexual assault is crystal clear, you can do whatever you want with your partner(s) with consent, nobody cares at that point. The minute you take past activity as a license to do what you want without someone's permission is the minute you cross the line into assault.

kamjam 13y ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoI3O2HE9qg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoI3O2HE9qg Reminds me of this comedian. In one of his clips he talks about how he hates people recording his gigs on mobile phones etc, etc because then they are free to selectively show parts of a skit: http://youtu.be/Z3fZutYufGE?t=26m15s http://youtu.be/Z3fZutYufGE?t=26m15s Context means everything.