8 ms·

Well of course the misogynist doesn't believe he's misogynistic. Why should his opinion matter more than the hundreds of people who complained?

tomjen3 13y ago
Truth is not subject to voting and Kickstarter has proved that they consider women inferior and in need of protection by banning this type of content.
- calibraxis 13y ago
  When companies reject racist manuals, they're not taking the position that non-whites are "inferior and in need of protection". They're simply making the ethical choice, to the dismay of the people who enjoy racist sorts of things. Same goes for the misogynist manuals they're now taking the ethical stance against. So much for your ad hominem. I'd give Kickstarter kudos, except ethics are what people are supposed to have.
  - knowaveragejoe 13y ago
    This is, of course, equating this guide to a manual for sexism and not what the majority of women find attractive.
  - tomjen3 13y ago
    Seduction manuals aren't morally wrong, though, (they may be factually wrong and/or sleazy, but not morally) but racism is. Think of the difference between a book on the history of racism, with very explicit quotes, long, in dept conversations with racists, scientists and policy makers, the authors own experience in these groups, etc and the latest publication from the KKK. A seduction guide is the first. "Rapists Quarterly" is the second. Also nicely done working an adhomium in there.
    - arrrg 13y ago
      I think seduction manuals are morally wrong.
      - tomjen3 13y ago
        What you think isn't interesting, but I would like to see a comprehensive, well formulated argument as to why you think that; indeed I have commented extensively in this thread to find such an argument, but mostly its that all the other arguments just shame language (rape culture, you have a problem. I will be sincerely please if you could provide a good argument against my position.
        arrrg 13y ago
        I don’t think it’s possible to convince you. I will not attempt it.
        cbendeb 13y ago
        Morality is a very complex topic that possibly can't be proven by logic anyway. Why is racism immoral, other than the fact that we, as a society, have decided that it's immoral? I think seduction manuals are immoral because they essentially treat women like min-maxers do video games--do this, and your chance of success is raised by X%, follow this procedure to succeed, etc. It makes women into vending machines that, if the buttons are properly pressed in the right succession, will theoretically result in a prize--sex--being dispensed. I think that treating people like that is immoral. Can I prove this logically? Can I claim that this is a universal truth? Of course not, but the same is true for every moral stance.
- glassx 13y ago
  It's not protection. It's respect.
- king_jester 13y ago
  Not facilitating the promotion of sexism and materials that essentially advocates for sexual assault isn't a statement on any gender, but rather the company is not there to support oppression.
newnewnew 13y ago
Is it misogynist to learn what women like in a partner and attempt to be that? Isn't that making a world more according to women's preferences? How is that "hatred of women"? If the author is wrong, and you write a better manual, many men struggling with the modern dating world will gladly buy your more effective book. But we aren't arguing fact, are we? We're arguing religion.
- lewispollard 13y ago
  Yes, because women, funnily enough, are individual human beings with their own tastes and desires.
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Women are, funnily enough, female members of the species homo sapiens and there is a lot of scientific evidence on what they find attractive in a potential mate.
    - lewispollard 13y ago
      Show me this evidence. If that is really your attitude towards women then it's no wonder you feel the need to read a book like this. Try a little respect for your fellow people, you'll have much more fulfilling experiences with women if you stop believing what science tells you and actually take an interest in the people around you
      - newnewnew 13y ago
        Sure - you're three times as likely to get a woman's number if you ask while walking a dog: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007/more-reasons-love-dogs-they-promote-prosocial-behaviors-and-they-attra http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007... A light touch on the forearm also increases the chances of getting a number: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 That's a start for ya. There's nothing this society hates more than beta males. Your comment confirms it. God forbid a guy ain't a natural with women and needs some advice. He's probably deformed, deranged, and dangerous.
papsosouid 13y ago
How about the millions of people who didn't complain? Just because a handful of people who literally spend their entire lives seeking things to be offended by complained about something, doesn't mean their opinion is the majority, or more valid than anyone else's.
- lewispollard 13y ago
  The problem I have with attitudes like this is that you're completely disregarding other people's opinions because you're not offended. If you're not part of the group being discriminated against then of course you're not offended - but that doesn't mean that people who do find it sexiest, discriminatory, offensive and oppressive have any less of a valid opinion. In fact I'd argue that it makes their opinion more valid. it's not hard just not to be an arsehole to other people.
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    No, I am not disregarding their opinions. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions. I am saying their opinions are not objectively correct simply because they are taking the active position of complaining, while people who aren't upset obviously don't make a lot of noise about how indifferent they are. Also, nobody is being oppressed or discriminated against in this situation.

tomjen3 13y ago

Truth is not subject to voting and Kickstarter has proved that they consider women inferior and in need of protection by banning this type of content.

calibraxis 13y ago
When companies reject racist manuals, they're not taking the position that non-whites are "inferior and in need of protection". They're simply making the ethical choice, to the dismay of the people who enjoy racist sorts of things. Same goes for the misogynist manuals they're now taking the ethical stance against. So much for your ad hominem. I'd give Kickstarter kudos, except ethics are what people are supposed to have.
- knowaveragejoe 13y ago
  This is, of course, equating this guide to a manual for sexism and not what the majority of women find attractive.
- tomjen3 13y ago
  Seduction manuals aren't morally wrong, though, (they may be factually wrong and/or sleazy, but not morally) but racism is. Think of the difference between a book on the history of racism, with very explicit quotes, long, in dept conversations with racists, scientists and policy makers, the authors own experience in these groups, etc and the latest publication from the KKK. A seduction guide is the first. "Rapists Quarterly" is the second. Also nicely done working an adhomium in there.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    I think seduction manuals are morally wrong.
    - tomjen3 13y ago
      What you think isn't interesting, but I would like to see a comprehensive, well formulated argument as to why you think that; indeed I have commented extensively in this thread to find such an argument, but mostly its that all the other arguments just shame language (rape culture, you have a problem. I will be sincerely please if you could provide a good argument against my position.
      - arrrg 13y ago
        I don’t think it’s possible to convince you. I will not attempt it.
      - cbendeb 13y ago
        Morality is a very complex topic that possibly can't be proven by logic anyway. Why is racism immoral, other than the fact that we, as a society, have decided that it's immoral? I think seduction manuals are immoral because they essentially treat women like min-maxers do video games--do this, and your chance of success is raised by X%, follow this procedure to succeed, etc. It makes women into vending machines that, if the buttons are properly pressed in the right succession, will theoretically result in a prize--sex--being dispensed. I think that treating people like that is immoral. Can I prove this logically? Can I claim that this is a universal truth? Of course not, but the same is true for every moral stance.
glassx 13y ago
It's not protection. It's respect.
king_jester 13y ago
Not facilitating the promotion of sexism and materials that essentially advocates for sexual assault isn't a statement on any gender, but rather the company is not there to support oppression.

newnewnew 13y ago

Is it misogynist to learn what women like in a partner and attempt to be that? Isn't that making a world more according to women's preferences? How is that "hatred of women"? If the author is wrong, and you write a better manual, many men struggling with the modern dating world will gladly buy your more effective book. But we aren't arguing fact, are we? We're arguing religion.

lewispollard 13y ago
Yes, because women, funnily enough, are individual human beings with their own tastes and desires.
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Women are, funnily enough, female members of the species homo sapiens and there is a lot of scientific evidence on what they find attractive in a potential mate.
  - lewispollard 13y ago
    Show me this evidence. If that is really your attitude towards women then it's no wonder you feel the need to read a book like this. Try a little respect for your fellow people, you'll have much more fulfilling experiences with women if you stop believing what science tells you and actually take an interest in the people around you
    - newnewnew 13y ago
      Sure - you're three times as likely to get a woman's number if you ask while walking a dog: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007/more-reasons-love-dogs-they-promote-prosocial-behaviors-and-they-attra http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007... A light touch on the forearm also increases the chances of getting a number: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 That's a start for ya. There's nothing this society hates more than beta males. Your comment confirms it. God forbid a guy ain't a natural with women and needs some advice. He's probably deformed, deranged, and dangerous.

papsosouid 13y ago

How about the millions of people who didn't complain? Just because a handful of people who literally spend their entire lives seeking things to be offended by complained about something, doesn't mean their opinion is the majority, or more valid than anyone else's.

lewispollard 13y ago
The problem I have with attitudes like this is that you're completely disregarding other people's opinions because you're not offended. If you're not part of the group being discriminated against then of course you're not offended - but that doesn't mean that people who do find it sexiest, discriminatory, offensive and oppressive have any less of a valid opinion. In fact I'd argue that it makes their opinion more valid. it's not hard just not to be an arsehole to other people.
- papsosouid 13y ago
  No, I am not disregarding their opinions. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions. I am saying their opinions are not objectively correct simply because they are taking the active position of complaining, while people who aren't upset obviously don't make a lot of noise about how indifferent they are. Also, nobody is being oppressed or discriminated against in this situation.