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Beware: it is very dangerous to attempt to rescue a full-grown person who is drowning. A person who is drowning has temporarily lost their mind and will happily

by ender7 13y ago

Beware: it is very dangerous to attempt to rescue a full-grown person who is drowning. A person who is drowning has temporarily lost their mind and will happily drown their would-be rescuer in an attempt to stay above the water. Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits.

clarkmoody 13y ago
Better yet, get a stick or rope and pull them to safety. They will grab onto whatever is within their grasp.
- antoko 13y ago
  did you mean to contradict the article or did you not even read it? Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
  - clarkmoody 13y ago
    I've had water rescue training. I read the article as well. Parent comment was addressing a drowning person victimizing the rescuer, which also seems to contradict the article.
    - antoko 13y ago
      You're right - I'm making assumptions when imagining the situations described in my head and jumping to unfair conclusions about your point. When I imagine a person in the water trying to help it seems obvious that if you're next to them in the water they will clamber on to you and do whatever they can to keep their mouth out of the water to breathe. When I image holding some object out for them to grab it seems the greater chance is that they wont be aware of the object, or unable to reach the object. However a rescuer with actual knowledge would be aware of the situation and would ensure they physically touch them with the object so they have to be aware of it.
      - jholman 13y ago
        Yeah, though it's not even about forcing them to be aware of it. Like you quoted from the article, "cannot voluntarily control their arm movements". So the question is, what's the Override Software doing with their arms? It's climbing a ladder, it's scrambling up a vine, it's hauling the body onto a boulder. If there's no ladder/vine/boulder, it's a shitty strategy, and they'll drown pretty soon. If there's a rescuer in reach, like a foot from them, they'll climb the rescuer, unconsciously. If they drown the rescuer, they gain a minute of life, then they drown themselves. So that's bad for everyone. If there's a life-saving device where they have to think about it and grab it, they cannot. Not will not, but cannot. But if the life-saving device arranges to be grabbed, they climb it. That's actually useful! If it floats, they can climb it and not-drown. If it's a rope, as they climb it, you can pull them to safety. So, again. You can't count on the cooperation of the drowning victim, and it's not because they're "stupid" or something, it's because they're not people right now. But you can count on their body doing certain things.
        venus 13y ago
        As a reasonably strong swimmer with no life saving experience - giving or receiving - this conversation is pretty fascinating, especially the casual nature experienced rescuers are saying things such as > they're not people right now This strikes me as an incredibly interesting concept. I wonder what other situations arise semi-frequently where participants temporarily abandon their people-ness? Has this notion been legally tested? If in a state of non-people-ness I drown my rescuer yet then survive, have I committed murder? It's this kind of random tangent into conversations where knowledgeable people frankly discuss things I had never even imagined that I love about HN (and, to a lesser extent, reddit). FFS, I have a swimming pool downstairs. This conversation has made me realise I have no idea how to save someone I see drowning in it - if I can even identify they are drowning. I'm glad I'm reading it.
        Filligree 13y ago
        In the moral sense? No, clearly you have not committed murder. In the legal sense? Um. That would get interesting. I imagine that if the court knows what happened, the answer would be 'no', but if no-one there knows this kind of thing might happen (including you) you might have a problem.
  - surfearth 13y ago
    Both the article and the previous commenter are correct. People in late stages of drowning can't swim toward you, but they certainly will grasp on to you when you reach out to rescue them. If this happens, the rescuer will frequently submerge himself and use their legs and arms to forcefully push away from the victim before reengaging from behind. (Source: I was an ocean lifeguard for seven years in high school and college and have experienced this)
    - robbiep 13y ago
      Was waiting for someone to say this. They (Surf life saving Australia) teach the same here. I've only ever been involved in board or IRB rescues in real life but the old sea dogs say that it works wonders if they do grab into you: drop like a stone because the last thing a drowning person wants is to be attached to a person who is going under the water given their desperate struggle to keep their head up
  - swombat 13y ago
    Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment. They won't reach out for it, but if it happens to be within their reach they'll grab it.
mikeryan 13y ago
Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits Unless you're a trained lifeguard this is poor advice. As stated above you don't want to get within touching/grabbing distance of a drowning person. Get some sort of intermediary between you and them, a stick, rope, shirt, pants whatever. Something that you can drop if you are at risk. To the point below about their instincts of not grabbing it. Don't leave it out where they need to reach for it. Hit them in the head or arms with the stick or piece of clothing and they'll grab it. My first few pool rescues with a lifebouy I'd leave it within their grasp and they'd not grab it. If I hit them in the head or hands with it they'd grab it every time.
- mcclung 13y ago
  I had a lady next to me start to drown and grab me in a pool when I was getting my diving certification. Despite having a supply of air, wetsuit, fins and buoyancy control device on, she got that drowning sensation when her respirator came out. Once she had someone to hold onto, sanity was restored but I totally got why drowning people are dangerous from then on.
  - chetanahuja 13y ago
    Wow... whoever this person is, I sincerely hope they were not certified (in that attempt). This person is almost guaranteed to lose it at the first minor hassle (say getting wrapped in kelp) underwater.
  - SiVal 13y ago
    I used to teach scuba, and people would occasionally freak out and grab me as if they were trying to drown me. I wasn't too concerned about my own safety in those cases, because years of play in the ocean had taught me not to panic when unexpectedly shoved underwater. You always have some air in your lungs. Stay calm, and it will give you the time you need (unless you're in extreme conditions). Just swim down when you are grabbed. If you kick and thrash to try to raise yourself to get your head above the water, they will feel you raising them up and try to climb on top of you for safety. So you shovel water with your arms to push yourself farther down, pulling them down just enough that their heads go underwater, too, and they'll release you quickly. They are struggling desperately to keep their heads above water and won't hang on to something that's pulling them under. Your head is already underwater, so it won't hurt you to go a little deeper, but if you panic and try to fight toward the surface, they might hold you under until it's too late for you. Go down. Once they release, you push back out of reach, get your air at the surface, and figure out how to help them.
WA 13y ago
If the drowning person puts you in danger, because he/she clings too tight and there's a risk that both of you will drown, the solution is to punch or even break their nose to cause a shock so that the person lets go. Or pull/push him/her under water and wait until they are unconscious and then attempt to rescue.

by ender7 13y ago

clarkmoody 13y ago

Better yet, get a stick or rope and pull them to safety. They will grab onto whatever is within their grasp.

antoko 13y ago
did you mean to contradict the article or did you not even read it? Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
- clarkmoody 13y ago
  I've had water rescue training. I read the article as well. Parent comment was addressing a drowning person victimizing the rescuer, which also seems to contradict the article.
  - antoko 13y ago
    You're right - I'm making assumptions when imagining the situations described in my head and jumping to unfair conclusions about your point. When I imagine a person in the water trying to help it seems obvious that if you're next to them in the water they will clamber on to you and do whatever they can to keep their mouth out of the water to breathe. When I image holding some object out for them to grab it seems the greater chance is that they wont be aware of the object, or unable to reach the object. However a rescuer with actual knowledge would be aware of the situation and would ensure they physically touch them with the object so they have to be aware of it.
    - jholman 13y ago
      Yeah, though it's not even about forcing them to be aware of it. Like you quoted from the article, "cannot voluntarily control their arm movements". So the question is, what's the Override Software doing with their arms? It's climbing a ladder, it's scrambling up a vine, it's hauling the body onto a boulder. If there's no ladder/vine/boulder, it's a shitty strategy, and they'll drown pretty soon. If there's a rescuer in reach, like a foot from them, they'll climb the rescuer, unconsciously. If they drown the rescuer, they gain a minute of life, then they drown themselves. So that's bad for everyone. If there's a life-saving device where they have to think about it and grab it, they cannot. Not will not, but cannot. But if the life-saving device arranges to be grabbed, they climb it. That's actually useful! If it floats, they can climb it and not-drown. If it's a rope, as they climb it, you can pull them to safety. So, again. You can't count on the cooperation of the drowning victim, and it's not because they're "stupid" or something, it's because they're not people right now. But you can count on their body doing certain things.
      - venus 13y ago
        As a reasonably strong swimmer with no life saving experience - giving or receiving - this conversation is pretty fascinating, especially the casual nature experienced rescuers are saying things such as > they're not people right now This strikes me as an incredibly interesting concept. I wonder what other situations arise semi-frequently where participants temporarily abandon their people-ness? Has this notion been legally tested? If in a state of non-people-ness I drown my rescuer yet then survive, have I committed murder? It's this kind of random tangent into conversations where knowledgeable people frankly discuss things I had never even imagined that I love about HN (and, to a lesser extent, reddit). FFS, I have a swimming pool downstairs. This conversation has made me realise I have no idea how to save someone I see drowning in it - if I can even identify they are drowning. I'm glad I'm reading it.
        Filligree 13y ago
        In the moral sense? No, clearly you have not committed murder. In the legal sense? Um. That would get interesting. I imagine that if the court knows what happened, the answer would be 'no', but if no-one there knows this kind of thing might happen (including you) you might have a problem.
- surfearth 13y ago
  Both the article and the previous commenter are correct. People in late stages of drowning can't swim toward you, but they certainly will grasp on to you when you reach out to rescue them. If this happens, the rescuer will frequently submerge himself and use their legs and arms to forcefully push away from the victim before reengaging from behind. (Source: I was an ocean lifeguard for seven years in high school and college and have experienced this)
  - robbiep 13y ago
    Was waiting for someone to say this. They (Surf life saving Australia) teach the same here. I've only ever been involved in board or IRB rescues in real life but the old sea dogs say that it works wonders if they do grab into you: drop like a stone because the last thing a drowning person wants is to be attached to a person who is going under the water given their desperate struggle to keep their head up
- swombat 13y ago
  Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment. They won't reach out for it, but if it happens to be within their reach they'll grab it.

mikeryan 13y ago

Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits Unless you're a trained lifeguard this is poor advice. As stated above you don't want to get within touching/grabbing distance of a drowning person. Get some sort of intermediary between you and them, a stick, rope, shirt, pants whatever. Something that you can drop if you are at risk. To the point below about their instincts of not grabbing it. Don't leave it out where they need to reach for it. Hit them in the head or arms with the stick or piece of clothing and they'll grab it. My first few pool rescues with a lifebouy I'd leave it within their grasp and they'd not grab it. If I hit them in the head or hands with it they'd grab it every time.

mcclung 13y ago
I had a lady next to me start to drown and grab me in a pool when I was getting my diving certification. Despite having a supply of air, wetsuit, fins and buoyancy control device on, she got that drowning sensation when her respirator came out. Once she had someone to hold onto, sanity was restored but I totally got why drowning people are dangerous from then on.
- chetanahuja 13y ago
  Wow... whoever this person is, I sincerely hope they were not certified (in that attempt). This person is almost guaranteed to lose it at the first minor hassle (say getting wrapped in kelp) underwater.
- SiVal 13y ago
  I used to teach scuba, and people would occasionally freak out and grab me as if they were trying to drown me. I wasn't too concerned about my own safety in those cases, because years of play in the ocean had taught me not to panic when unexpectedly shoved underwater. You always have some air in your lungs. Stay calm, and it will give you the time you need (unless you're in extreme conditions). Just swim down when you are grabbed. If you kick and thrash to try to raise yourself to get your head above the water, they will feel you raising them up and try to climb on top of you for safety. So you shovel water with your arms to push yourself farther down, pulling them down just enough that their heads go underwater, too, and they'll release you quickly. They are struggling desperately to keep their heads above water and won't hang on to something that's pulling them under. Your head is already underwater, so it won't hurt you to go a little deeper, but if you panic and try to fight toward the surface, they might hold you under until it's too late for you. Go down. Once they release, you push back out of reach, get your air at the surface, and figure out how to help them.

WA 13y ago

If the drowning person puts you in danger, because he/she clings too tight and there's a risk that both of you will drown, the solution is to punch or even break their nose to cause a shock so that the person lets go. Or pull/push him/her under water and wait until they are unconscious and then attempt to rescue.