2 ms·

> what we generally consider as "power" or "potency" is more than just effect per unit mass Um, OK, that may be true for you, and maybe even for society at lar

> what we generally consider as "power" or "potency" is more than just effect per unit mass Um, OK, that may be true for you, and maybe even for society at large, but I've personally never heard such a thing before right now. It's certainly not how I would define the words. To address the point I think you're trying to make (which still doesn't make much sense to me), in the forms they are commonly encountered in, GHB is unquestionably much more dangerous/"powerful" than alcohol. So I still don't see why my comment attracted this sort of argument.

pstuart 13y ago
> much more dangerous Only if taking the same amounts, which is ludicrous. Alcohol is plenty dangerous already and we're all ok with that.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I think you think I'm making some sort of profound safety and/or merits-of-substance and/or political argument. I'm really not. Edit: Regardless, I surrender, this conversation is both useless and utterly uninteresting because nobody is talking about the same thing I am. I deeply regret having entered it.
  - pstuart 13y ago
    I'd love to hear what point you were trying to make. All I saw was hand-wringing over a "dangerous drug". GHB is now known as a date-rape drug, even though the leading date-rape drug is alcohol. Your dialog seemed to be buying into the fear. disclaimer: I personally advocate for the legalization of all drugs.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      > I personally advocate for the legalization of all drugs. So do I. That doesn't prevent me from objectively analyzing the relative potency of two drugs. Not every comment about drugs is a policy argument, and not every statement that one drug is more potent than another is designed to further an agenda.
vilhelm_s 13y ago
In this case it was used as a treatment for opium addiction, right? A doctor prescribing a given drug will specify a suitable amount to get the desired effect. One drug might be more dangerous than another e.g. because it has a more narrow therapeutic index, but surely not because it has a bigger effect for a given mass of drug, or because it is "commonly encountered" in big doses?
wavefunction 13y ago
Dangerous? Alcohol has much more systemic toxicity than GHB in general. Consider if you consumed 3.5 grams of tylenol. You will die. Does that make it more "powerful" or "dangerous" than alcohol? That is the point we are trying to make.
- shabble 13y ago
  Are you talking about 3.5g Tylenol (Acetaminophen/Paracetamol) in conjunction with [moderate to large] amounts of alcohol? Because otherwise, it's unlikely to be fatal even in a single dose, and is within normal dosage guidelines for daily use (typ. 4000mg/day) It takes somewhere around 10g in a single dose, or 6g+ repeated over several days to cause serious damage[1], although obviously it varies by individual. Note: This is not to downplay in any way the seriousness of APAP/Paracetamol toxicity, it's [iirc] the 2nd most common drug of fatal overdose, and is a truly horrible way to die[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity [2] Although prognosis is good if you get proper treatment in ~8hrs.

pstuart 13y ago

> much more dangerous Only if taking the same amounts, which is ludicrous. Alcohol is plenty dangerous already and we're all ok with that.

nknighthb 13y ago
I think you think I'm making some sort of profound safety and/or merits-of-substance and/or political argument. I'm really not. Edit: Regardless, I surrender, this conversation is both useless and utterly uninteresting because nobody is talking about the same thing I am. I deeply regret having entered it.
- pstuart 13y ago
  I'd love to hear what point you were trying to make. All I saw was hand-wringing over a "dangerous drug". GHB is now known as a date-rape drug, even though the leading date-rape drug is alcohol. Your dialog seemed to be buying into the fear. disclaimer: I personally advocate for the legalization of all drugs.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    > I personally advocate for the legalization of all drugs. So do I. That doesn't prevent me from objectively analyzing the relative potency of two drugs. Not every comment about drugs is a policy argument, and not every statement that one drug is more potent than another is designed to further an agenda.

vilhelm_s 13y ago

In this case it was used as a treatment for opium addiction, right? A doctor prescribing a given drug will specify a suitable amount to get the desired effect. One drug might be more dangerous than another e.g. because it has a more narrow therapeutic index, but surely not because it has a bigger effect for a given mass of drug, or because it is "commonly encountered" in big doses?

wavefunction 13y ago

Dangerous? Alcohol has much more systemic toxicity than GHB in general. Consider if you consumed 3.5 grams of tylenol. You will die. Does that make it more "powerful" or "dangerous" than alcohol? That is the point we are trying to make.

shabble 13y ago
Are you talking about 3.5g Tylenol (Acetaminophen/Paracetamol) in conjunction with [moderate to large] amounts of alcohol? Because otherwise, it's unlikely to be fatal even in a single dose, and is within normal dosage guidelines for daily use (typ. 4000mg/day) It takes somewhere around 10g in a single dose, or 6g+ repeated over several days to cause serious damage[1], although obviously it varies by individual. Note: This is not to downplay in any way the seriousness of APAP/Paracetamol toxicity, it's [iirc] the 2nd most common drug of fatal overdose, and is a truly horrible way to die[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity [2] Although prognosis is good if you get proper treatment in ~8hrs.