4 ms·

I'm pretty sure you don't realize that it's what people here in Europe have been saying about China for the last 15 years, until they started competing with us

by bsaul 13y ago

I'm pretty sure you don't realize that it's what people here in Europe have been saying about China for the last 15 years, until they started competing with us on the nuclear power plant and fast train businesses. Then, we lost all our jobs in the industry (except for Germany, but for how long ?), and Europe now faces the biggest economical crisis it has ever known. US still reigns the software industry, but should China decides to make that a top priority, you can be sure that it won't take long until we all start using "made in china" OSes and softwares.

bebna 13y ago
> (except for Germany, but for how long ?) We just work together with china and not against it. We sell them fabrication machines, together with services and skill around those. (And in the end, we export enough weapons to not care.)
- bsaul 13y ago
  I'm all for the liberal way of thinking. Making business with someone is supposed to be good for both sides. But that works when you're making business with a democracy that plays it "fair". Working "together" with China is a pretty idealistic way of seeing it. They've spent the last 20 years asking for european companies (both civilians and military) to give them their industrial and technological secrets before they buy anything, so that they could clone pretty much everything and sell goods back to us for 10% of the price, thanks to a workforce that lives in barely human conditions and no patent system or anything close to it (but also very smart and education oriented people, to be honest). With software, my bet is it's going to go even faster, since everything is pretty much open source those days. Now, I know things are slowly changing and i don't mean to be too hard on the chinese regime, which managed to let that country grow tremendously, and probably improve the life of many citizens. I just wanted to balance your idealistic point of view a little bit.
victorlin 13y ago
You are basically right about China, they are raising fast. But what the news talking about is to recruit 3000 developers in Taiwan rather than in China, I think it could be so hard even to recruit 50 okay software developers in Taiwan. Actually there is no software/Internet industry in Taiwan. You can name Internet company as a long list such as Baidu, Taobao, Webo and what so ever in China, but you cannot find even a famous website which is from Taiwan. Taiwan is good at hardware OEM but not software. As a software developer from Taiwan, I know the situation here. Hardware OEM industry makes money, they can offer better for getting talents. When CS students graduate, they would rather go to OEM company (such as TSMC) than go to software/Internet company or even startups. How can they complete OEM firms in recruiting battle? It's really a bad environment for software development. Actually, software/Internet in China is much better than Taiwan.
throwaway9848 13y ago
Just like Hauwei crushed Cisco?
- roy_x 13y ago
  Huawei and Foxconn are totally different kind of company. Foxconn is more like a military station, while people listen to command and act as orderred. No respect from manger to normal employee. Huawei has an atmosphere where talents are respected by others, maybe like a laboratory. I don't think Foxconn can achieve its goal as declared.
  - throwaway9848 13y ago
    My point was more that people wouldn't use China-made OSes or hardware because of security concerns. Even knowing what I know today, I trust US equipment and software more.
ttrreeww 13y ago
Everything you can do, we can do it better, and cheaper. It's only a matter of time, and we will see it soon.

by bsaul 13y ago

bebna 13y ago

> (except for Germany, but for how long ?) We just work together with china and not against it. We sell them fabrication machines, together with services and skill around those. (And in the end, we export enough weapons to not care.)

bsaul 13y ago
I'm all for the liberal way of thinking. Making business with someone is supposed to be good for both sides. But that works when you're making business with a democracy that plays it "fair". Working "together" with China is a pretty idealistic way of seeing it. They've spent the last 20 years asking for european companies (both civilians and military) to give them their industrial and technological secrets before they buy anything, so that they could clone pretty much everything and sell goods back to us for 10% of the price, thanks to a workforce that lives in barely human conditions and no patent system or anything close to it (but also very smart and education oriented people, to be honest). With software, my bet is it's going to go even faster, since everything is pretty much open source those days. Now, I know things are slowly changing and i don't mean to be too hard on the chinese regime, which managed to let that country grow tremendously, and probably improve the life of many citizens. I just wanted to balance your idealistic point of view a little bit.

victorlin 13y ago

You are basically right about China, they are raising fast. But what the news talking about is to recruit 3000 developers in Taiwan rather than in China, I think it could be so hard even to recruit 50 okay software developers in Taiwan. Actually there is no software/Internet industry in Taiwan. You can name Internet company as a long list such as Baidu, Taobao, Webo and what so ever in China, but you cannot find even a famous website which is from Taiwan. Taiwan is good at hardware OEM but not software. As a software developer from Taiwan, I know the situation here. Hardware OEM industry makes money, they can offer better for getting talents. When CS students graduate, they would rather go to OEM company (such as TSMC) than go to software/Internet company or even startups. How can they complete OEM firms in recruiting battle? It's really a bad environment for software development. Actually, software/Internet in China is much better than Taiwan.

throwaway9848 13y ago

Just like Hauwei crushed Cisco?

roy_x 13y ago
Huawei and Foxconn are totally different kind of company. Foxconn is more like a military station, while people listen to command and act as orderred. No respect from manger to normal employee. Huawei has an atmosphere where talents are respected by others, maybe like a laboratory. I don't think Foxconn can achieve its goal as declared.
- throwaway9848 13y ago
  My point was more that people wouldn't use China-made OSes or hardware because of security concerns. Even knowing what I know today, I trust US equipment and software more.

ttrreeww 13y ago

Everything you can do, we can do it better, and cheaper. It's only a matter of time, and we will see it soon.