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I would like to know is there a capacity for the number of battery replacements they system can do ? I guess they recharge your battery and pass it on to the ne

I would like to know is there a capacity for the number of battery replacements they system can do ? I guess they recharge your battery and pass it on to the next person when it's fully charged. How do they insure battery quality for the replacements. Still a F'ing awesome demo.

calinet6 13y ago
This is the key reason you'd want to do this in the first place. It not only solves the problem of quickly charging the battery, it solves the problem of battery quality over time! The mere fact that you have batteries being swapped in and out of cars means you can systematically track battery health and refurbish batteries that are getting low, without ever having to bother the customer or affect the driveability of the car. The $40 (or so) battery swap fee is not for the electricity or the infrastructure, it is an insurance payment on the battery itself. You're paying for the collective maintenance of all Tesla batteries, and in turn ensuring the health and ease of your own. The last remaining argument against electric has always been the charge time, and "oh, but the battery costs $15,000 when it finally dies out"—I always knew a system of battery swap was the answer to basically everything, and I thought Tesla was doing it wrong by coming out with a fixed-battery car. Turns out I was wrong. They're doing everything exactly right.
- lnanek2 13y ago
  Agreed. I never could have bought an electric knowing how batteries die. This eliminates that problem. Now if only my MacBook had battery swap capability...
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  So, $40 times 375 == $15000. That, what, 37500 miles? Sounds worse, not better.
  - calinet6 13y ago
    You're going on long trips every single mile? Otherwise you're charging it at home, at work, or using a supercharger while you eat lunch. You may only swap the batt 10 times or less in those 37,500 miles. And you still get all the battery-quality advantages.
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      You've figured it wrong. After 37500 miles of long-distance driving, you have paid as much as a battery pack. Do you do less than that many long-distance miles in a normal car lifetime?
      - carbocation 13y ago
        Your calculations rely on someone paying to swap out their battery every time they run low on electricity. The other person is saying that in typical use, you will end up charging the vehicle most of the time, not swapping the battery. If you were to swap the battery every time, this would look to be a poor bargain. But if the battery is swapped only once per ten "empties", because for the other 9 it was convenient to charge it, then the calculation would be redone for 10x the distance at the same price. So, you are both right, but talking about slightly different things (typical use for a commuter with occasional trips, vs long-distance-only users).
      - calinet6 13y ago
        The point is that before this, charging (even with a supercharger in ~1 hour) was the accepted method of filling the battery, and it was free and/or cheap. That is still a perfectly acceptable method. Now you also have the choice of swapping, which provides you with a guarantee of a constantly healthy battery, a fast full charge, and continuous long-distance capability. I see your point—if you're doing 37,500 miles of long-distance, you're going to eventually pay for the battery cost over time. Possibly. But you have the choice, and it's going to be amortized over so many snap decisions that it's more like, "the convenience of this is worth $40 to me right now," rather than thinking of it as the cost of a new battery. I think it works out, personally. And for most people, charging is a perfectly acceptable way to drive the car. I think people won't really swap the battery that often, and when they do it'll be because they need the time benefit, and that's the value proposition. For others, they get the same battery-life and battery-health benefits by swapping only once in a while, or hell, even only when their current battery dies completely. Basically, everyone wins, and it's still about the same cost as gas for a 22mpg car, even if you swap 50% of the time. If you swap less than that, it's cheaper to operate in the same period of time. Simple as that.
  - caw 13y ago
    This doesn't break self-charging. You could use the same battery pack for a couple of months and then do the battery swap when you're doing a long distance drive.
  - lsaferite 13y ago
    Where did you get the 37,500 mile number from? That's saying you get 100 mile range when the advertised range is 265 miles. Even being conservative and saying 200 miles puts you at 75k miles after your 375 swaps.
- swalsh 13y ago
  It potentially also enables the used car market. I definitely would be hesitant of buying a used tesla if i knew there was a potential 15k bill waiting for me very shortly.
- mfenniak 13y ago
  According to this article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUSBRE95K07H20130621 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...): A battery pack swap will cost between $60 and $80, about the same as filling up a 15-gallon gas tank, Musk said. Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. So, I think they're not quite tackling the battery quality problem like you're suggesting. I think your idea makes a lot more sense than coming back to reclaim your battery later, though. I find that very odd.
  - m_mueller 13y ago
    My guess is the cost structure of such an infrastructure is at first prohibitive to offer a complete swap at 60-80$. Once the market is big enough they might be able to switch to the model suggested abovr.
    - calinet6 13y ago
      Agreed, it makes sense at small scale to make it an individual system. Once the system grows, it'll be easier to spread the cost over more users. It's like insurance. I hope that's where they're going, because it's the crux of the concept to me.
  - jim-greer 13y ago
    Maybe once more people are doing it they'll switch to that system? Initially when few are doing it in a few places, there's incentive to just get a better battery and keep it.

calinet6 13y ago

This is the key reason you'd want to do this in the first place. It not only solves the problem of quickly charging the battery, it solves the problem of battery quality over time! The mere fact that you have batteries being swapped in and out of cars means you can systematically track battery health and refurbish batteries that are getting low, without ever having to bother the customer or affect the driveability of the car. The $40 (or so) battery swap fee is not for the electricity or the infrastructure, it is an insurance payment on the battery itself. You're paying for the collective maintenance of all Tesla batteries, and in turn ensuring the health and ease of your own. The last remaining argument against electric has always been the charge time, and "oh, but the battery costs $15,000 when it finally dies out"—I always knew a system of battery swap was the answer to basically everything, and I thought Tesla was doing it wrong by coming out with a fixed-battery car. Turns out I was wrong. They're doing everything exactly right.

lnanek2 13y ago
Agreed. I never could have bought an electric knowing how batteries die. This eliminates that problem. Now if only my MacBook had battery swap capability...
JoeAltmaier 13y ago
So, $40 times 375 == $15000. That, what, 37500 miles? Sounds worse, not better.
- calinet6 13y ago
  You're going on long trips every single mile? Otherwise you're charging it at home, at work, or using a supercharger while you eat lunch. You may only swap the batt 10 times or less in those 37,500 miles. And you still get all the battery-quality advantages.
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    You've figured it wrong. After 37500 miles of long-distance driving, you have paid as much as a battery pack. Do you do less than that many long-distance miles in a normal car lifetime?
    - carbocation 13y ago
      Your calculations rely on someone paying to swap out their battery every time they run low on electricity. The other person is saying that in typical use, you will end up charging the vehicle most of the time, not swapping the battery. If you were to swap the battery every time, this would look to be a poor bargain. But if the battery is swapped only once per ten "empties", because for the other 9 it was convenient to charge it, then the calculation would be redone for 10x the distance at the same price. So, you are both right, but talking about slightly different things (typical use for a commuter with occasional trips, vs long-distance-only users).
    - calinet6 13y ago
      The point is that before this, charging (even with a supercharger in ~1 hour) was the accepted method of filling the battery, and it was free and/or cheap. That is still a perfectly acceptable method. Now you also have the choice of swapping, which provides you with a guarantee of a constantly healthy battery, a fast full charge, and continuous long-distance capability. I see your point—if you're doing 37,500 miles of long-distance, you're going to eventually pay for the battery cost over time. Possibly. But you have the choice, and it's going to be amortized over so many snap decisions that it's more like, "the convenience of this is worth $40 to me right now," rather than thinking of it as the cost of a new battery. I think it works out, personally. And for most people, charging is a perfectly acceptable way to drive the car. I think people won't really swap the battery that often, and when they do it'll be because they need the time benefit, and that's the value proposition. For others, they get the same battery-life and battery-health benefits by swapping only once in a while, or hell, even only when their current battery dies completely. Basically, everyone wins, and it's still about the same cost as gas for a 22mpg car, even if you swap 50% of the time. If you swap less than that, it's cheaper to operate in the same period of time. Simple as that.
- caw 13y ago
  This doesn't break self-charging. You could use the same battery pack for a couple of months and then do the battery swap when you're doing a long distance drive.
- lsaferite 13y ago
  Where did you get the 37,500 mile number from? That's saying you get 100 mile range when the advertised range is 265 miles. Even being conservative and saying 200 miles puts you at 75k miles after your 375 swaps.
swalsh 13y ago
It potentially also enables the used car market. I definitely would be hesitant of buying a used tesla if i knew there was a potential 15k bill waiting for me very shortly.
mfenniak 13y ago
According to this article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUSBRE95K07H20130621 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...): A battery pack swap will cost between $60 and $80, about the same as filling up a 15-gallon gas tank, Musk said. Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. So, I think they're not quite tackling the battery quality problem like you're suggesting. I think your idea makes a lot more sense than coming back to reclaim your battery later, though. I find that very odd.
- m_mueller 13y ago
  My guess is the cost structure of such an infrastructure is at first prohibitive to offer a complete swap at 60-80$. Once the market is big enough they might be able to switch to the model suggested abovr.
  - calinet6 13y ago
    Agreed, it makes sense at small scale to make it an individual system. Once the system grows, it'll be easier to spread the cost over more users. It's like insurance. I hope that's where they're going, because it's the crux of the concept to me.
- jim-greer 13y ago
  Maybe once more people are doing it they'll switch to that system? Initially when few are doing it in a few places, there's incentive to just get a better battery and keep it.