6 ms·

Considering human nature first, and the assumption that these battery swap sites will probably be unattended, I wonder how long before someone will work out how

by kryten 13y ago

Considering human nature first, and the assumption that these battery swap sites will probably be unattended, I wonder how long before someone will work out how to steal those batteries?

phreeza 13y ago
About as easy as stealing gas from a gas station. Slightly higher payoff, but still I don't see that as a huge problem, especially as the batteries probably all have serial numbers.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  given their size there is more than enough room to put any amount of tracking gear you want into these packs. In fact I would be surprised if they haven't done that. Why shouldn't the pack phone home? Why wait for drop off or exchange to report how it operates? If anything a black box system in one of these packs could provide a wealth of immediate information about operating characteristics that would benefit Tesla and battery manufacturers. It could all be done fully protecting the drivers privacy.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    How would they power the tracking equipm... oh wait.
noir_lord 13y ago
First why would you make the battery sites unattended anymore than the average petrol (gas) station is unattended? (particularly in the near term where these are essentially prototypes). Secondly here in the UK we have fully automated petrol stations and they have a low theft rate, high quality CCTV plus the need to put in a credit/debit card before it'll start pumping makes sure of that. There are other issues with this technology but theft I can't see becoming a major one.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Actually, to my surprise, it appears that batteries must be worth stealing. I was disappointed recently when cycling east out of Edinburgh to see that pretty much all of the solar powered lights along the path between Newcraighall and the Queen Margaret University campus have been systematically robbed. Initially I thought it was vandalism but after looking at a few it was clear that each one had been broken into for the batteries - nothing else was damaged. There must be 50+ lights - pretty much all robbed. The battery packs looked fairly large and as this is a cycle/foot path they presumably had to use some kind of transport (hand trolley?). :-(
  - gt565k 13y ago
    I'm sure you have nothing to worry about. The batteries will most likely be securely stored underground, not be visible to everyone. I'm sure they'll have at least 1 person at the station or at least security cameras. It's not like you can just steal these batteries and sell them on the black market. Considering how much they weigh, it's probably near impossible to replace/install a new battery yourself.
    - arethuza 13y ago
      I'm not worried about it at all - just that, from what I have seen, there must be some black market for industrial sized batteries (maybe for their metal component?). Whether this impacts on Tesla or not I have no idea - I suspect not.
  - TheAnimus 13y ago
    Put on high vis jacket, people would assume you were servicing them rather than being naughty. I don't know much about the lighting on this path, but I wouldn't have thought they were using expensive batteries? Then again people die stealing copper worth a few hundred quid.
  - emiliobumachar 13y ago
    There are people who steal manhole covers for the scrap metal. (Yes, submitting others to hazard). It's not necessarily much profitable.
kalleboo 13y ago
These batteries weigh a ton (probably literally), and it looks like all the mechanics are underground. It seems trivial to put a tamper alarm on it and due to the weight there would be a lot of time for security to arrive. This could be just as secure as an ATM.
gt565k 13y ago
So you think a company that designs electric vehicles can't secure the batteries? The damn things come from underground. Not to mention the service station connects to the car somehow before doing so, because well as Tesla said, the battery is tied to your account. I wonder how long before people start thinking before posting their opinions on the internet... Can't we all just use some common sense before we start jumping to conclusions?
- kryten 13y ago
  Banks and post offices get robbed every day. That problem is still not solved.
  - TillE 13y ago
    Apart from the extraordinarily rare successful heist[1], banks get robbed of teeny tiny amounts. That problem is effectively solved. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9810660/Images-of-Berlin-bank-tunnel-raid-emerge.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/981...
    - dfc 13y ago
      Insurance solved the problem of bank heists.
pbreit 13y ago
I'd be surprised if it ever happens. I'm sure the batteries are configured to be useless in the wrong car.
- moreati 13y ago
  Why assume the thief will want to use it? The scrap value of the copper and aluminium alone could make it worthwhile
sksksk 13y ago
It just becomes part of the cost of doing business. We still have credit cards, even though credit card fraud exists, it's just factored into interest rates. If 1% of batteries get stolen (which is probably way higher than it'll actually be), then the price of batteries will increase by 1% to factor it in. If that causes battery swaps to be uneconomical, so be it, the we'll figure out something else.
quackerhacker 13y ago
Theft should never hinder innovation, and when you factor in the ambition of Tesla, I am very sure they will dedicate as much time and effort into theft deterrence as they do to ease of use.
ISL 13y ago
If batteries are that easy to remove, how long does it take someone to steal a battery in a parking lot?
- andrewmunsell 13y ago
  You're going to crawl under a car with power tools, unhook the battery, and potentially smash yourself/head/hand with an extremely large pack of batteries, then try and drag it out of under the car? I feel like it'd be easier just to siphon someone's gas...
  - ISL 13y ago
    People regularly steal catalytic converters with a sawzall; common targets are Toyota trucks/SUVs. With batteries for a Tesla, I bet there are more than a few people with screwdrivers and three portable car jacks that would be very happy to make >$5k/night. If the Tesla design becomes a commodity, theft may become a problem.

by kryten 13y ago

Considering human nature first, and the assumption that these battery swap sites will probably be unattended, I wonder how long before someone will work out how to steal those batteries?

phreeza 13y ago

About as easy as stealing gas from a gas station. Slightly higher payoff, but still I don't see that as a huge problem, especially as the batteries probably all have serial numbers.

Shivetya 13y ago
given their size there is more than enough room to put any amount of tracking gear you want into these packs. In fact I would be surprised if they haven't done that. Why shouldn't the pack phone home? Why wait for drop off or exchange to report how it operates? If anything a black box system in one of these packs could provide a wealth of immediate information about operating characteristics that would benefit Tesla and battery manufacturers. It could all be done fully protecting the drivers privacy.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  How would they power the tracking equipm... oh wait.

noir_lord 13y ago

First why would you make the battery sites unattended anymore than the average petrol (gas) station is unattended? (particularly in the near term where these are essentially prototypes). Secondly here in the UK we have fully automated petrol stations and they have a low theft rate, high quality CCTV plus the need to put in a credit/debit card before it'll start pumping makes sure of that. There are other issues with this technology but theft I can't see becoming a major one.

arethuza 13y ago
Actually, to my surprise, it appears that batteries must be worth stealing. I was disappointed recently when cycling east out of Edinburgh to see that pretty much all of the solar powered lights along the path between Newcraighall and the Queen Margaret University campus have been systematically robbed. Initially I thought it was vandalism but after looking at a few it was clear that each one had been broken into for the batteries - nothing else was damaged. There must be 50+ lights - pretty much all robbed. The battery packs looked fairly large and as this is a cycle/foot path they presumably had to use some kind of transport (hand trolley?). :-(
- gt565k 13y ago
  I'm sure you have nothing to worry about. The batteries will most likely be securely stored underground, not be visible to everyone. I'm sure they'll have at least 1 person at the station or at least security cameras. It's not like you can just steal these batteries and sell them on the black market. Considering how much they weigh, it's probably near impossible to replace/install a new battery yourself.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    I'm not worried about it at all - just that, from what I have seen, there must be some black market for industrial sized batteries (maybe for their metal component?). Whether this impacts on Tesla or not I have no idea - I suspect not.
- TheAnimus 13y ago
  Put on high vis jacket, people would assume you were servicing them rather than being naughty. I don't know much about the lighting on this path, but I wouldn't have thought they were using expensive batteries? Then again people die stealing copper worth a few hundred quid.
- emiliobumachar 13y ago
  There are people who steal manhole covers for the scrap metal. (Yes, submitting others to hazard). It's not necessarily much profitable.

kalleboo 13y ago

These batteries weigh a ton (probably literally), and it looks like all the mechanics are underground. It seems trivial to put a tamper alarm on it and due to the weight there would be a lot of time for security to arrive. This could be just as secure as an ATM.

gt565k 13y ago

So you think a company that designs electric vehicles can't secure the batteries? The damn things come from underground. Not to mention the service station connects to the car somehow before doing so, because well as Tesla said, the battery is tied to your account. I wonder how long before people start thinking before posting their opinions on the internet... Can't we all just use some common sense before we start jumping to conclusions?

kryten 13y ago
Banks and post offices get robbed every day. That problem is still not solved.
- TillE 13y ago
  Apart from the extraordinarily rare successful heist[1], banks get robbed of teeny tiny amounts. That problem is effectively solved. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9810660/Images-of-Berlin-bank-tunnel-raid-emerge.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/981...
  - dfc 13y ago
    Insurance solved the problem of bank heists.

pbreit 13y ago

I'd be surprised if it ever happens. I'm sure the batteries are configured to be useless in the wrong car.

moreati 13y ago
Why assume the thief will want to use it? The scrap value of the copper and aluminium alone could make it worthwhile

sksksk 13y ago

It just becomes part of the cost of doing business. We still have credit cards, even though credit card fraud exists, it's just factored into interest rates. If 1% of batteries get stolen (which is probably way higher than it'll actually be), then the price of batteries will increase by 1% to factor it in. If that causes battery swaps to be uneconomical, so be it, the we'll figure out something else.

quackerhacker 13y ago

Theft should never hinder innovation, and when you factor in the ambition of Tesla, I am very sure they will dedicate as much time and effort into theft deterrence as they do to ease of use.

ISL 13y ago

If batteries are that easy to remove, how long does it take someone to steal a battery in a parking lot?

andrewmunsell 13y ago
You're going to crawl under a car with power tools, unhook the battery, and potentially smash yourself/head/hand with an extremely large pack of batteries, then try and drag it out of under the car? I feel like it'd be easier just to siphon someone's gas...
- ISL 13y ago
  People regularly steal catalytic converters with a sawzall; common targets are Toyota trucks/SUVs. With batteries for a Tesla, I bet there are more than a few people with screwdrivers and three portable car jacks that would be very happy to make >$5k/night. If the Tesla design becomes a commodity, theft may become a problem.