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Wow. This is incredible. Nicely designed, electric power vehicles. Incredible. Finally, after around 130 years of IC engine, we are onto the next step. And this

by iamshs 13y ago

Wow. This is incredible. Nicely designed, electric power vehicles. Incredible. Finally, after around 130 years of IC engine, we are onto the next step. And this step is such a simple method to refuel. Better than spending 30 mins recharging from ground up. Why are we going towards electric vehicles? To reduce dependency upon conventional fuels. From where will electricity come? Nuclear Energy. Can long term derivative benefits and harm be predicted? Spent nuclear fuel storage and getting rare earth minerals seem to be only obvious ones to me.

chad_oliver 13y ago
It's only wishful thinking at this stage, but I'm really looking forward to fusion power. Conventional nuclear has many downsides that fusion doesn't suffer from.
- cdash 13y ago
  Not enough to wait.
  - chad_oliver 13y ago
    Ah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't buy an electric car until we have fusion; only that I'm really looking forward to fusion. I've edited my comment to make it more clear.
- iamshs 13y ago
  Definitely, there will be progress. Right now, conventional fuels provide 80% of electricity. It is estimated that by 2100, fusion energy will provide 20% of electricity generation.
  - chc 13y ago
    As best I can gather, that estimate seems to be about as reliable as a weather forecast for 2100. We don't even have one working fusion reactor today, so we have literally no useful data from which to extrapolate.
mtgx 13y ago
> From where will electricity come? Nuclear Energy. Tesla is giving free "solar" energy through its supercharger network.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > "solar" energy A.k.a. Fusion. ;)
- iamshs 13y ago
  That is great. "Over time, Tesla plans to add solar canopies to all Supercharger stations."
Homunculiheaded 13y ago
One thing that I haven't seen come up much is the idea that the electric car is going to be essential for a successful robotic car. Sure robotic drivers will be masters of fuel efficiency, and quiet likely we'll end up sharing one car between many different people when that happens. But Jevon's paradox[0] suggests that we'll actually be using more fuel, not less. And it makes sense as well: driving will be so easy and not constrained by human factors (needing to sleep, eat, boredom with driving, being intoxicated etc) there are millions of reasons to have more cars doing more work. Even ignoring environmental cost, the fuel cost to the individual would remove a lot of this usefulness (Why not commute 8 hours while you sleep, start your weekend on the beach the moment you wake up? Because it's so expensive!). I pretty strongly believe that without fully electric cars, we'll never realize the benefits of fully robotic drivers. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
schiffern 13y ago
>getting rare earth minerals I don't know about other electric cars, but this one doesn't use rare earth metals in the motor or battery. They use an AC induction motor that doesn't require permanent magnets, invented by Nikola Tesla actually. http://www.teslamotors.com/it_CH/forum/forums/no-rare-earth-metals-model-s http://www.teslamotors.com/it_CH/forum/forums/no-rare-earth-...
- roskilli 13y ago
  I believe he was referencing the Uranium required for Nuclear Reactors that currently is the most efficient/green standard for generating electricity at scale, althought Thorium-based nuclear power could well solve the "rare" issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power
  - ericd 13y ago
    We also waste >95% of the uranium and generate a lot more high grade waste due to our once-through policy, so there's that...
sliverstorm 13y ago
From where will electricity come? If the current political climate is any indication, coal.
mikevm 13y ago
>Why are we going towards electric vehicles? To reduce dependency upon conventional fuels. From where will electricity come? Nuclear Energy. Yeah, I don't really get the fuss about electric vehicles. They might move us away from oil, but we mainly use fossil fuels to generate electricity... so this is merely an indirection.
- pshc 13y ago
  The great thing about indirection is you can change what it points at. In the future we'll be running out of fossil fuels and generating electricity with same will be uneconomical compared to alternatives. It will be nice to have a mature EV industry at that point.
- theguycalledtom 13y ago
  Is this a serious thought out comment or a joke? Even coal powered electric plants are far more efficient than an ICE. So they are a cheaper source of fuel for the consumer and are putting out less C02. They are also far away from populated cities so the pollution isn't choking up the air in the city.

by iamshs 13y ago

chad_oliver 13y ago

It's only wishful thinking at this stage, but I'm really looking forward to fusion power. Conventional nuclear has many downsides that fusion doesn't suffer from.

cdash 13y ago
Not enough to wait.
- chad_oliver 13y ago
  Ah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't buy an electric car until we have fusion; only that I'm really looking forward to fusion. I've edited my comment to make it more clear.
iamshs 13y ago
Definitely, there will be progress. Right now, conventional fuels provide 80% of electricity. It is estimated that by 2100, fusion energy will provide 20% of electricity generation.
- chc 13y ago
  As best I can gather, that estimate seems to be about as reliable as a weather forecast for 2100. We don't even have one working fusion reactor today, so we have literally no useful data from which to extrapolate.

mtgx 13y ago

> From where will electricity come? Nuclear Energy. Tesla is giving free "solar" energy through its supercharger network.

jlgreco 13y ago
> "solar" energy A.k.a. Fusion. ;)
iamshs 13y ago
That is great. "Over time, Tesla plans to add solar canopies to all Supercharger stations."

Homunculiheaded 13y ago

One thing that I haven't seen come up much is the idea that the electric car is going to be essential for a successful robotic car. Sure robotic drivers will be masters of fuel efficiency, and quiet likely we'll end up sharing one car between many different people when that happens. But Jevon's paradox[0] suggests that we'll actually be using more fuel, not less. And it makes sense as well: driving will be so easy and not constrained by human factors (needing to sleep, eat, boredom with driving, being intoxicated etc) there are millions of reasons to have more cars doing more work. Even ignoring environmental cost, the fuel cost to the individual would remove a lot of this usefulness (Why not commute 8 hours while you sleep, start your weekend on the beach the moment you wake up? Because it's so expensive!). I pretty strongly believe that without fully electric cars, we'll never realize the benefits of fully robotic drivers. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

schiffern 13y ago

>getting rare earth minerals I don't know about other electric cars, but this one doesn't use rare earth metals in the motor or battery. They use an AC induction motor that doesn't require permanent magnets, invented by Nikola Tesla actually. http://www.teslamotors.com/it_CH/forum/forums/no-rare-earth-metals-model-s http://www.teslamotors.com/it_CH/forum/forums/no-rare-earth-...

roskilli 13y ago
I believe he was referencing the Uranium required for Nuclear Reactors that currently is the most efficient/green standard for generating electricity at scale, althought Thorium-based nuclear power could well solve the "rare" issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power
- ericd 13y ago
  We also waste >95% of the uranium and generate a lot more high grade waste due to our once-through policy, so there's that...

sliverstorm 13y ago

From where will electricity come? If the current political climate is any indication, coal.

mikevm 13y ago

>Why are we going towards electric vehicles? To reduce dependency upon conventional fuels. From where will electricity come? Nuclear Energy. Yeah, I don't really get the fuss about electric vehicles. They might move us away from oil, but we mainly use fossil fuels to generate electricity... so this is merely an indirection.

pshc 13y ago
The great thing about indirection is you can change what it points at. In the future we'll be running out of fossil fuels and generating electricity with same will be uneconomical compared to alternatives. It will be nice to have a mature EV industry at that point.
theguycalledtom 13y ago
Is this a serious thought out comment or a joke? Even coal powered electric plants are far more efficient than an ICE. So they are a cheaper source of fuel for the consumer and are putting out less C02. They are also far away from populated cities so the pollution isn't choking up the air in the city.