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This is true for this specific program and only under the current policies. Let's just stop kidding ourselves and assume that the NSA stores our communications

This is true for this specific program and only under the current policies. Let's just stop kidding ourselves and assume that the NSA stores our communications indefinitely, and design our software accordingly.

toufka 13y ago
Exactly. This is what Snowden was warning about. There is a single variable (in each program) that determines this expiry date. Today it's set to '5' years. But a flip of a (few) bits and that could be 50, or 500. Much like the Mickey Mouse laws. That flipping a bit, he analogizes to 'turn-key' with the result being quite close to tyranny.
- jivatmanx 13y ago
  The number is simply based on the cost and convenience of storage. As prices continue to plunge, the length will be indefinite.
  - declan 13y ago
    First, the 5 year limit is, if I recall correctly, based on Holder/DOJ's secret interpretation of the law. It's not fixed in statute. It could have changed at any point. Second, Holder signed the secret authorization in July 2009. It hasn't yet been 5 years. The question is whether it's extended by July 2014 or not.
    - natermer 13y ago
      Well he can just sign another secret authorization. Maybe he already has. I am sure that in 5 years the number would be extended to 10 years. And in 15 years it would just be indefinite.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
natermer 13y ago
> This is true for this specific program and only under the current policies. Let's just stop kidding ourselves and assume that the NSA stores our communications indefinitely, and design our software accordingly. Really? And you believe this... because why? Because that is what they said? I seriously believe that if I was to tell you that Obama had a massive program to collect and record the phone activities of every American at any time for any reason two months ago you would of called 'bullshit' so fast that it would of made my head spin. I see zero reason to believe anything these guys tell us about anything. The only way to understand what they are really doing is to get information that they say is illegal for you to know.
- genwin 13y ago
  Unlikely a news junkie would've called b.s. on that. There have been numerous stories in support of domestic phone call recording over the years, like: http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/12/5791-2/ http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/12/5791-2/
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I think you parsed his call to action incorrectly. You appear to be in strong agreement.
- betterunix 13y ago
  "I seriously believe that if I was to tell you that Obama had a massive program to collect and record the phone activities of every American at any time for any reason two months ago you would of called 'bullshit' so fast that it would of made my head spin." What makes you think that the latest news has changed my assumptions about the NSA? There has been evidence of widespread surveillance by the NSA for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON These sort of programs span multiple administrations. There was never any reason to believe that the Obama administration would end them.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Statements by candidate Obama that he'd put an end to warrantless wiretapping was some reason, if not (apparently) sufficient reason. Of course, he did put an end to warrantless wiretapping: collection of metadata is no longer considered wiretapping. Yay!

toufka 13y ago

Exactly. This is what Snowden was warning about. There is a single variable (in each program) that determines this expiry date. Today it's set to '5' years. But a flip of a (few) bits and that could be 50, or 500. Much like the Mickey Mouse laws. That flipping a bit, he analogizes to 'turn-key' with the result being quite close to tyranny.

jivatmanx 13y ago
The number is simply based on the cost and convenience of storage. As prices continue to plunge, the length will be indefinite.
- declan 13y ago
  First, the 5 year limit is, if I recall correctly, based on Holder/DOJ's secret interpretation of the law. It's not fixed in statute. It could have changed at any point. Second, Holder signed the secret authorization in July 2009. It hasn't yet been 5 years. The question is whether it's extended by July 2014 or not.
  - natermer 13y ago
    Well he can just sign another secret authorization. Maybe he already has. I am sure that in 5 years the number would be extended to 10 years. And in 15 years it would just be indefinite.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

natermer 13y ago

> This is true for this specific program and only under the current policies. Let's just stop kidding ourselves and assume that the NSA stores our communications indefinitely, and design our software accordingly. Really? And you believe this... because why? Because that is what they said? I seriously believe that if I was to tell you that Obama had a massive program to collect and record the phone activities of every American at any time for any reason two months ago you would of called 'bullshit' so fast that it would of made my head spin. I see zero reason to believe anything these guys tell us about anything. The only way to understand what they are really doing is to get information that they say is illegal for you to know.

genwin 13y ago
Unlikely a news junkie would've called b.s. on that. There have been numerous stories in support of domestic phone call recording over the years, like: http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/12/5791-2/ http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/12/5791-2/
jlgreco 13y ago
I think you parsed his call to action incorrectly. You appear to be in strong agreement.
betterunix 13y ago
"I seriously believe that if I was to tell you that Obama had a massive program to collect and record the phone activities of every American at any time for any reason two months ago you would of called 'bullshit' so fast that it would of made my head spin." What makes you think that the latest news has changed my assumptions about the NSA? There has been evidence of widespread surveillance by the NSA for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON These sort of programs span multiple administrations. There was never any reason to believe that the Obama administration would end them.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Statements by candidate Obama that he'd put an end to warrantless wiretapping was some reason, if not (apparently) sufficient reason. Of course, he did put an end to warrantless wiretapping: collection of metadata is no longer considered wiretapping. Yay!