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Female here, just voted. I just wanted to say I love Hacker News. I'm an introvert and a nerd before I am a female, so I am of course drawn to Hacker News bec

Female here, just voted. I just wanted to say I love Hacker News. I'm an introvert and a nerd before I am a female, so I am of course drawn to Hacker News because it's a great place to find other over-sensitive folks who take themselves, their questions, and other peoples' questions very seriously. As others point out again and again, the quality of discourse here is just really high. Secondarily, but still present, I like Hacker News because relative to other community sites it's very female-friendly. HN is mostly based on ideas, not status/gender/age. I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here (I've pretty much learned to just not even click threads about the ideal age to get married, what's more important relationships or programming, etc) but even when things make me sad, they're at least not crudely written. Basically HN keeps it pretty civil. Anyway, you folks are great, HN is great, and I think more females will gravitate here for a variety of reasons, most having nothing to do with gender.

Alex3917 17y ago
"I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here, [...] but even when things make me sad..." Does reading comments you think are misguided make you sad? I feel like there's an interesting academic study in here somewhere. edit: If the parent comment was made by a guy, would I still be getting downmodded?
- thesethings 17y ago
  (Just upmodded your question, a decent one.) "Does reading comments you think are misguided make you sad?..." Yeah, kind of. I mean, it's pretty context dependent. First of all, outside of HN, I'd be much less sensitive to stuff I feel is off-base, after all, that's why I'm at HN, it's different, a refuge from a world I'm used to feeling out of place in. (Don't mean to make that sound so dramatic/emo. I like plenty of things outside of HN, but in terms of general-subject tech news, it's pretty unique.) I guess it stings more at HN because there are many people here I highly, highly respect and am inspired by, and a few posters here who I try to follow very closely, as if their HN posts were a feed I subscribed to. When these folks say certain things, it makes my heart sink a little, because in my fantasy, I want to imagine there's room for somebody like me in their view of the world. I wrote something related above, " when you read/hear something about you described as an Other, or somebody who should/does have traits different than you do (example: I don't like fashion.), you feel out of place, something I'd otherwise never feel at HN, a place I usually feel right at home at." I don't want to change the tone about my overall feeling about HN. I think it's great. It's my extremely high opinion of it that gives it the power to make me feel sad sometimes.
  - Alex3917 17y ago
    "When these folks say certain things, it makes my heart sink a little, because in my fantasy, I want to imagine there's room for somebody like me in their view of the world." Interesting. So let's invent a measure called "distance from text", if such a thing does not already exist. Let's say a five on the scale equates to, "I view comments as documents handed down from on high from people who cannot change or who I cannot change." And let's say a one on the scale equates to, "I view comments as an invitation to improve someone else's schemas." I'm guessing you would be closer to a five on this scale, whereas I would be closer to a one. Of course this scale is just made up off the top of my head, but it would be interesting to find a similar concept with some validity and then go out and measure people.
  - amichail 17y ago
    I guess it stings more at HN because there are many people here I highly, highly respect and am inspired by, and a few posters here who I try to follow very closely, as if their HN posts were a feed I subscribed to. Why would you think they are talking about you in particular? People who excel will always stand out no matter what group they come from. So why do you care about what people say about other members of your group?
    - cglee 17y ago
      Group identity. Just like you (or some of "us") get figgidty when people make fun of techies/hackers. Update: I should clarify that "group identity" is strong when that identity is formed around an "out-group" (a minority or marginalized group). An "out-group" is just a group who is threatened in some way (as perceived by the group).
edw519 17y ago
"I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here..." I used to. I don't anymore. My (totally illogical) belief system regarding hn comments: If we agree, then I think, "Great! I'm on the right track." If not, then I think, "They just don't understand (yet)." May not really make sense, but I always leave hn feeling better, never worse.
- thesethings 17y ago
  Heh. No, your description does make sense, and made me laugh. Never do I feel more validated than when reading a Paul Graham essay, ("Guess who's not crazy?? Me!"). As I said above, I freely admit I'm oversensitive, something I probably share with many HN users. Maybe one reason I wince here at HN more than elsewhere is because I'd otherwise consider HN somewhat of an intellectual refuge, with peers. So when you read/hear something about you described as an Other, or somebody who should/does have traits different than you do (example: I don't like fashion.), you feel out of place, something I'd otherwise never feel at HN, a place I usually feel right at home at. Anyway, I like your description of how it feels to read HN, pretty right on :D
  - dhimes 17y ago
    I also feel out of place: Although I'm male, I'm old, have a family, I have tech credentials, but not in programming--in fact, I feel like I'm forever the novice. My tools aren't "cool," but they were new to me (OOP-Java, web scripting-PHP; in fact, they were berated in this very thread) so I "learned" them. But I'll tell you a secret: edw519 has it exactly right. In fact, his attitude is the single, predominant trait I've seen in successful CEOs (or other group leaders). "They don't like * because they don't get it yet" is a very useful mindset for dealing with rejection ("why aren't they buying my product?"). They vary widely in their other personality traits; some are outgoing, others introverted, etc. But CEOs/leaders that convey that attitude to the group keep the whole team up. And feeling up is far more productive than feeling down!
diN0bot 17y ago
well said. i initially avoided hacker news because i still viewed "hacker" in the "old school" basement programmer meaning, which i associated with immature, ego-centric aggression. also, even knowing lambda calculus, the 'y' in y-combinator still struck my as rather male-oriented. don't not read a book because of it's cover. the emphasis on intellectually interesting articles and discussion, as well as culturally and directly moderated civil discourse, is awesome. it makes anyone's presence here more about content than gender or immaturity. there are certainly comments that make me cringe, but i doubt that is primarily a gender thing.
jrockway 17y ago
I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here (I've pretty much learned to just not even click threads about the ideal age to get married, what's more important relationships or programming, etc) but even when things make me sad, they're at least not crudely written. I feel the same way about comments advocating the use of PHP or Java.
mihasya 17y ago
a/s/l? it's threads like these that will forever keep me from accumulating any karma on here.
ralph 17y ago
As I write this, 4.55% "of those that answered" are female. That seems surprisingly high to me, so I think you could be right. It will be interesting to see whether the relatively high number of women will help keep the conversation civil and respectful. I'm wondering this because in the UK it's understood that mixed schools are better for boys because they behave better in the company of girls, however, it's worse for girls because the boys still muck around enough to distract from education; girls on their own do better.
asciilifeform 17y ago
> I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here (...) Would you care to elaborate?

Alex3917 17y ago

"I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here, [...] but even when things make me sad..." Does reading comments you think are misguided make you sad? I feel like there's an interesting academic study in here somewhere. edit: If the parent comment was made by a guy, would I still be getting downmodded?

thesethings 17y ago
(Just upmodded your question, a decent one.) "Does reading comments you think are misguided make you sad?..." Yeah, kind of. I mean, it's pretty context dependent. First of all, outside of HN, I'd be much less sensitive to stuff I feel is off-base, after all, that's why I'm at HN, it's different, a refuge from a world I'm used to feeling out of place in. (Don't mean to make that sound so dramatic/emo. I like plenty of things outside of HN, but in terms of general-subject tech news, it's pretty unique.) I guess it stings more at HN because there are many people here I highly, highly respect and am inspired by, and a few posters here who I try to follow very closely, as if their HN posts were a feed I subscribed to. When these folks say certain things, it makes my heart sink a little, because in my fantasy, I want to imagine there's room for somebody like me in their view of the world. I wrote something related above, " when you read/hear something about you described as an Other, or somebody who should/does have traits different than you do (example: I don't like fashion.), you feel out of place, something I'd otherwise never feel at HN, a place I usually feel right at home at." I don't want to change the tone about my overall feeling about HN. I think it's great. It's my extremely high opinion of it that gives it the power to make me feel sad sometimes.
- Alex3917 17y ago
  "When these folks say certain things, it makes my heart sink a little, because in my fantasy, I want to imagine there's room for somebody like me in their view of the world." Interesting. So let's invent a measure called "distance from text", if such a thing does not already exist. Let's say a five on the scale equates to, "I view comments as documents handed down from on high from people who cannot change or who I cannot change." And let's say a one on the scale equates to, "I view comments as an invitation to improve someone else's schemas." I'm guessing you would be closer to a five on this scale, whereas I would be closer to a one. Of course this scale is just made up off the top of my head, but it would be interesting to find a similar concept with some validity and then go out and measure people.
- amichail 17y ago
  I guess it stings more at HN because there are many people here I highly, highly respect and am inspired by, and a few posters here who I try to follow very closely, as if their HN posts were a feed I subscribed to. Why would you think they are talking about you in particular? People who excel will always stand out no matter what group they come from. So why do you care about what people say about other members of your group?
  - cglee 17y ago
    Group identity. Just like you (or some of "us") get figgidty when people make fun of techies/hackers. Update: I should clarify that "group identity" is strong when that identity is formed around an "out-group" (a minority or marginalized group). An "out-group" is just a group who is threatened in some way (as perceived by the group).

edw519 17y ago

"I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here..." I used to. I don't anymore. My (totally illogical) belief system regarding hn comments: If we agree, then I think, "Great! I'm on the right track." If not, then I think, "They just don't understand (yet)." May not really make sense, but I always leave hn feeling better, never worse.

thesethings 17y ago
Heh. No, your description does make sense, and made me laugh. Never do I feel more validated than when reading a Paul Graham essay, ("Guess who's not crazy?? Me!"). As I said above, I freely admit I'm oversensitive, something I probably share with many HN users. Maybe one reason I wince here at HN more than elsewhere is because I'd otherwise consider HN somewhat of an intellectual refuge, with peers. So when you read/hear something about you described as an Other, or somebody who should/does have traits different than you do (example: I don't like fashion.), you feel out of place, something I'd otherwise never feel at HN, a place I usually feel right at home at. Anyway, I like your description of how it feels to read HN, pretty right on :D
- dhimes 17y ago
  I also feel out of place: Although I'm male, I'm old, have a family, I have tech credentials, but not in programming--in fact, I feel like I'm forever the novice. My tools aren't "cool," but they were new to me (OOP-Java, web scripting-PHP; in fact, they were berated in this very thread) so I "learned" them. But I'll tell you a secret: edw519 has it exactly right. In fact, his attitude is the single, predominant trait I've seen in successful CEOs (or other group leaders). "They don't like * because they don't get it yet" is a very useful mindset for dealing with rejection ("why aren't they buying my product?"). They vary widely in their other personality traits; some are outgoing, others introverted, etc. But CEOs/leaders that convey that attitude to the group keep the whole team up. And feeling up is far more productive than feeling down!

diN0bot 17y ago

well said. i initially avoided hacker news because i still viewed "hacker" in the "old school" basement programmer meaning, which i associated with immature, ego-centric aggression. also, even knowing lambda calculus, the 'y' in y-combinator still struck my as rather male-oriented. don't not read a book because of it's cover. the emphasis on intellectually interesting articles and discussion, as well as culturally and directly moderated civil discourse, is awesome. it makes anyone's presence here more about content than gender or immaturity. there are certainly comments that make me cringe, but i doubt that is primarily a gender thing.

jrockway 17y ago

I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here (I've pretty much learned to just not even click threads about the ideal age to get married, what's more important relationships or programming, etc) but even when things make me sad, they're at least not crudely written. I feel the same way about comments advocating the use of PHP or Java.

mihasya 17y ago

a/s/l? it's threads like these that will forever keep me from accumulating any karma on here.

ralph 17y ago

As I write this, 4.55% "of those that answered" are female. That seems surprisingly high to me, so I think you could be right. It will be interesting to see whether the relatively high number of women will help keep the conversation civil and respectful. I'm wondering this because in the UK it's understood that mixed schools are better for boys because they behave better in the company of girls, however, it's worse for girls because the boys still muck around enough to distract from education; girls on their own do better.

asciilifeform 17y ago

> I do wince and get bummed out whenever I read certain comments here (...) Would you care to elaborate?