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To me, as a European, your summary of the US-perspective on health care explains a lot. Over here, universal health care is supported by public opinion, mostly

To me, as a European, your summary of the US-perspective on health care explains a lot. Over here, universal health care is supported by public opinion, mostly because it is seen as a question of ethics (with a healthy dose of "it could happen to me" hedging). The consensus here is that society has to take care of the sick, independently of the circumstances of their life. It is important to note that I wrote society, not state. The state is seen as the agent through which society effects this, not the principal actor. The fact that it is seen as a question of ethics and a part of "we the society" probably also explains the rather vitriolic contributions that some of my European compatriots provide in discussions on the US health care situation (even though it is probably none of our business).

ElongatedTowel 13y ago
But health care is linked to employment in most parts of Europe as well. Unemployment benefits allow you to pay for it but if you those run out or you don't take benefit of them for some reason (say you live on the street) you're out of luck. Hell, even if you have a job you might have to pay for health care yourself due to certain circumstances and if you're in monetary trouble you might not be able to do so. Not to forget that freelancing or self-employment might bring you to the point were beeing unemployed is more beneficial to you because you have to pay for everything yourself with much higher rates.
- sentenza 13y ago
  Many details of the implementation are different in the individual states of the EU, since the health sector has so far not been harmonized. My experience is from Germany, where there exists a mixed system in which you are not allowed to have no health insurance. If you are self-employed or earn enough, you can switch to a private insurance company. You brought up one very important thing when you wrote about monetary trouble and self-employment. Because even a mandatory insurance scheme as the one in Germany has holes in it. I recently learned that, if you are self-employed, have private health care and run into financial trouble, you can end up in a state of "inactive health insurance", where you still have basic health insurance, but you always have to go to the emergency ward at the hospital. So far, a few ten thousand people are affected by this (out of 80 Million), but it is a de facto hole in the system. However, when I point this latter situation out to people around here they usually become quite enraged. In a way, this reinforces my point about the perception of health care as an ethics issue.
  - ElongatedTowel 13y ago
    > where there exists a mixed system in which you are not allowed to have no health insurance True. If you don't have one you have to pay a fine. Which is troubling if you couldn't pay for it in the first place. I have that problem at the moment. I guess it's mostly my fault for not taking every help I could get. So far I haven't gotten any troubling mail, but I'm sure I'll be in trouble once I have to get back into it. Everyone around me feels uneasy about this. I didn't have the need to go to the doctor in a very long time, but I can relate.

ElongatedTowel 13y ago

But health care is linked to employment in most parts of Europe as well. Unemployment benefits allow you to pay for it but if you those run out or you don't take benefit of them for some reason (say you live on the street) you're out of luck. Hell, even if you have a job you might have to pay for health care yourself due to certain circumstances and if you're in monetary trouble you might not be able to do so. Not to forget that freelancing or self-employment might bring you to the point were beeing unemployed is more beneficial to you because you have to pay for everything yourself with much higher rates.

sentenza 13y ago
Many details of the implementation are different in the individual states of the EU, since the health sector has so far not been harmonized. My experience is from Germany, where there exists a mixed system in which you are not allowed to have no health insurance. If you are self-employed or earn enough, you can switch to a private insurance company. You brought up one very important thing when you wrote about monetary trouble and self-employment. Because even a mandatory insurance scheme as the one in Germany has holes in it. I recently learned that, if you are self-employed, have private health care and run into financial trouble, you can end up in a state of "inactive health insurance", where you still have basic health insurance, but you always have to go to the emergency ward at the hospital. So far, a few ten thousand people are affected by this (out of 80 Million), but it is a de facto hole in the system. However, when I point this latter situation out to people around here they usually become quite enraged. In a way, this reinforces my point about the perception of health care as an ethics issue.
- ElongatedTowel 13y ago
  > where there exists a mixed system in which you are not allowed to have no health insurance True. If you don't have one you have to pay a fine. Which is troubling if you couldn't pay for it in the first place. I have that problem at the moment. I guess it's mostly my fault for not taking every help I could get. So far I haven't gotten any troubling mail, but I'm sure I'll be in trouble once I have to get back into it. Everyone around me feels uneasy about this. I didn't have the need to go to the doctor in a very long time, but I can relate.