4 ms·

Are you really sure that this isn't a myth? I often have problem expressing myself, finding the right words, but I am quite a good programmer.

bsaul 13y ago
Well, it's probably not equivalent, but it's a good hint (aka : you can't express clearly something that isn't well structured in your mind). Plus, it also let me test verbal skills themselves, which is extremely important as soon as you're working in a team. Another way of looking at it is that "finding the right word" often means find the good "fit" between abstract concepts shapes or feelings, and a construct of known language items. That's precisely what you're doing as a developer.
- RivieraKid 13y ago
  Ok, so it's based on reasoning full of assumptions that may be wrong, not on empirical evidence. For me, it's quite hard to think aloud when solving some problem, because it forces me to translate what goes in my mind into words, which is quite distracting, I cannot fully immerse into the problem.
  - bsaul 13y ago
    I suppose you're more a "tool" developper than a "business process automation" one. In the latter, you very often have to talk through the problem with your customer. But it is an assumption indeed... Only it is based on my personnal experience. As for the comment mentionning google developpers, the ones i see are good enough verbally to talk about their jobs at google i/o.
kaoD 13y ago
That you're "quite a good programmer" might be a myth too :P
- RivieraKid 13y ago
  I don't think so, because I've developed some quite popular software and done well in programming contests.
  - kaoD 13y ago
    Programming contests show nothing about your organizational skills, which is what companies should be looking for. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5911235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5911235 Mathematicians perform very well on programming contests, but they are usually terrible software engineers. Anyways, I was just kidding :)
    - victorhn 13y ago
      Google is full of engineers that did well on programming contests, they even have their own contest, and i don't think they are all terrible software engineers.
      - kaoD 13y ago
        http://qz.com/96206/google-admits-those-infamous-brainteasers-were-completely-useless-for-hiring/ http://qz.com/96206/google-admits-those-infamous-brainteaser...
        victorhn 13y ago
        I don't think the problems in algorithmics contests are in the category of brainteasers. As far as i know Google still relies heavily on knowledge of algorithms and problem solving capability to hire their engineers.
        kaoD 13y ago
        Fair point. I still think there are two types of programmers: problem solvers and system architects. The former (e.g. a data scientist) will be good solving a problem but bad building a big architecture. The latter, the other way around. I guess the question is which kind of programmer you are and which skills to look for.

bsaul 13y ago

Well, it's probably not equivalent, but it's a good hint (aka : you can't express clearly something that isn't well structured in your mind). Plus, it also let me test verbal skills themselves, which is extremely important as soon as you're working in a team. Another way of looking at it is that "finding the right word" often means find the good "fit" between abstract concepts shapes or feelings, and a construct of known language items. That's precisely what you're doing as a developer.

RivieraKid 13y ago
Ok, so it's based on reasoning full of assumptions that may be wrong, not on empirical evidence. For me, it's quite hard to think aloud when solving some problem, because it forces me to translate what goes in my mind into words, which is quite distracting, I cannot fully immerse into the problem.
- bsaul 13y ago
  I suppose you're more a "tool" developper than a "business process automation" one. In the latter, you very often have to talk through the problem with your customer. But it is an assumption indeed... Only it is based on my personnal experience. As for the comment mentionning google developpers, the ones i see are good enough verbally to talk about their jobs at google i/o.

kaoD 13y ago

That you're "quite a good programmer" might be a myth too :P

RivieraKid 13y ago
I don't think so, because I've developed some quite popular software and done well in programming contests.
- kaoD 13y ago
  Programming contests show nothing about your organizational skills, which is what companies should be looking for. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5911235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5911235 Mathematicians perform very well on programming contests, but they are usually terrible software engineers. Anyways, I was just kidding :)
  - victorhn 13y ago
    Google is full of engineers that did well on programming contests, they even have their own contest, and i don't think they are all terrible software engineers.
    - kaoD 13y ago
      http://qz.com/96206/google-admits-those-infamous-brainteasers-were-completely-useless-for-hiring/ http://qz.com/96206/google-admits-those-infamous-brainteaser...
      - victorhn 13y ago
        I don't think the problems in algorithmics contests are in the category of brainteasers. As far as i know Google still relies heavily on knowledge of algorithms and problem solving capability to hire their engineers.
        kaoD 13y ago
        Fair point. I still think there are two types of programmers: problem solvers and system architects. The former (e.g. a data scientist) will be good solving a problem but bad building a big architecture. The latter, the other way around. I guess the question is which kind of programmer you are and which skills to look for.