6 ms·

>There is absolutely no technical reason why the terms had to be so anti-consumer Yeah, actually, there are plenty. Step 1: Buy XBONE game. Step 2: Load it o

>There is absolutely no technical reason why the terms had to be so anti-consumer Yeah, actually, there are plenty. Step 1: Buy XBONE game. Step 2: Load it on your console. Step 3: Loan it to hundreds of friends and they load it on their console. And now hundreds of people are playing one copy of the game with no way of preventing them from doing so. It would make the "piracy" scene on day one, the worst of any console experience ever, ever. So how are you going to prevent that without requiring online connections?

nsxwolf 13y ago
It doesn't work that way. You have to have the disc in the tray.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  No, only as of today.
bornhuetter 13y ago
No, it should be that every time you load it on the console it phones home. So only 1 person can ever activate it. Phone home on activation is infinitely better than phone home every day.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  No. That's not true. That's true as of today with the new change. Before, that's absolutely not. This just goes to prove that most of the ignorant internet rage was from people that didn't bother understanding just how much MS was really giving us with the previous setup. You can't "phone home" with optical media, it's not serializable.
  - bornhuetter 13y ago
    I'm saying that's the way it should work. Give the user a disc and an activation code. Activation code becomes tied to the account until traded. Problem solved.
    - drivebyacct2 13y ago
      > Activation code becomes tied to the account until traded. So, like: I should be able to just directly say "Give my Halo 5 license to bornhuetter" and then my disc stops working because my console doesn't have a license and yours can then download the digital copy or put the disc in and have it "unlocked" with the license. I think that could work, still would require an online connection for any NEW games though, which I think MS is trying to avoid rather specifically (the blowback from overseas guys playing consoles, etc)
      - bornhuetter 13y ago
        > Unless you're implying that... my disc stops working because my console doesn't have a license That's exactly what I'm saying. The console has to phone home every time the game is installed or de-activated. The requirement to phone home every day, or for additional payment is completely unnecessary from a technical standpoint.
        contextfree 13y ago
        Let's say you install the game on two consoles. You put console 1 offline, then go online with console 2 and de-activate the license (by reselling, giving, etc. the game). How does console 1 know that the license has been de-activated?
- mparlane 13y ago
  drivebyacct.... http://www.techspot.com/news/51227-sony-applies-for-rfid-drm-patent-that-would-block-used-games.html http://www.techspot.com/news/51227-sony-applies-for-rfid-drm...
  - drivebyacct2 13y ago
    Oh, cool. That's very interesting. I curse it because it seems even more insidious and because I can't believe the next gen of consoles is even shipping with an internal optical drive... but I digress. Thanks for the link!
  - mparlane 13y ago
    I can't reply to you drivebyacct... no idea why. But the games for the Xbox One MUST be serializable, how else would it know the difference between a install of a disc on one console and another? Put in disc. Installs to hdd, checks in with MS. Take out disc. Something stops you just putting that disc in to a mates Xbox One. So obviously they do have something similar to Sony's patent. Or every disc has a unique serial written to the small inner sector of the disc?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Just put a code into the game case that allows for discless play, and require an online connection to install the game to the hd and unlock it for discless play. Not rocket science.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Okay, so now it's just two-for-one. Now I get to buy and play Halo5 and then give the disc to my brother.
  - InclinedPlane 13y ago
    And? Some people will take advantage of it, most won't because it's too much of a hassle. Look at netflix back when it was just a disc-based service. Just get as many DVDs delivered as possible, rip them to your HD and then pop them back in the mail. Some people did that. Most didn't. Also, the Xbox One HD is only 500 GB, you can't install quite so many games (delivered on blu-ray) before it gets full.
    - jonny_eh 13y ago
      You're being rational about DRM, that's not going to get you anywhere.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      The difference is that ripping a DVD continues to be a pain in the ass for most people, while "ripping" the game disk will presumably be something the XBox makes seamless.
- sivam 13y ago
  >Just put a code into the game case that allows for discless play, and require an online connection to install the game to the hd and unlock it for discless play. Not rocket science It is rocket science apparently Person A does what you said and goes on a cruise ship playing the game before giving the disc to Person B. Person B takes his disc, installs the game with an online connection. The server has no way of telling that Person A is still playing the game on his cruise. Person B finishes installing, goes to a camping trip before giving the disc to Person C.... Person C installs the game, unplugs the network from the Xbox and gives the disc to Person D...
Retric 13y ago
With about 30 seconds of thought. You can still play the game without uploading so each game represents 2 copy's. Require an activation code to "load" the game which you can get automatically online or with a phone call. Require someone to unload the game which spits about a 6 digit code before you can upload it again. Make a fast online check to see if anyone registered the game via a partial code on the outside of the box for the used game market. Don't let the disk play online content while "loaded" on a separate XBOX. Allow someone to declare an Xbox as broken, lost, or stolen.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Or register the game to your account and then be able to share it immediately, wirelessly across the country with 10 "family" members and being able to resell the digital copy. But noooooo, codes and short codes and registration verification sounds way better. >_< I guess this is so frustrating for me because I worked on a licensing system and had to deal with the hundreds of little places it could be attacked in ways that aren't obvious if you haven't worked in the problem space before.
  - bornhuetter 13y ago
    That's probably because you were trying to come up with a system this is more restrictive than the traditional physical media system (where you could share or sell a single physical item), but with concessions. There is a very simple and obvious solution - internet connection required on activation or deactivation (for trade). I have not read a single good argument against this system anywhere.
  - Retric 13y ago
    I dont think you understood what i said. The codes are transparent if someone is connected to the Internet. The reason I added them is to add functionality. Also, I would suggest a pure digital copy shuld probably have more permissive digital lending features as a selling point, but there is no reason not to add them for a "loaded" game.

nsxwolf 13y ago

It doesn't work that way. You have to have the disc in the tray.

drivebyacct2 13y ago
No, only as of today.

bornhuetter 13y ago

No, it should be that every time you load it on the console it phones home. So only 1 person can ever activate it. Phone home on activation is infinitely better than phone home every day.

drivebyacct2 13y ago
No. That's not true. That's true as of today with the new change. Before, that's absolutely not. This just goes to prove that most of the ignorant internet rage was from people that didn't bother understanding just how much MS was really giving us with the previous setup. You can't "phone home" with optical media, it's not serializable.
- bornhuetter 13y ago
  I'm saying that's the way it should work. Give the user a disc and an activation code. Activation code becomes tied to the account until traded. Problem solved.
  - drivebyacct2 13y ago
    > Activation code becomes tied to the account until traded. So, like: I should be able to just directly say "Give my Halo 5 license to bornhuetter" and then my disc stops working because my console doesn't have a license and yours can then download the digital copy or put the disc in and have it "unlocked" with the license. I think that could work, still would require an online connection for any NEW games though, which I think MS is trying to avoid rather specifically (the blowback from overseas guys playing consoles, etc)
    - bornhuetter 13y ago
      > Unless you're implying that... my disc stops working because my console doesn't have a license That's exactly what I'm saying. The console has to phone home every time the game is installed or de-activated. The requirement to phone home every day, or for additional payment is completely unnecessary from a technical standpoint.
      - contextfree 13y ago
        Let's say you install the game on two consoles. You put console 1 offline, then go online with console 2 and de-activate the license (by reselling, giving, etc. the game). How does console 1 know that the license has been de-activated?
mparlane 13y ago
drivebyacct.... http://www.techspot.com/news/51227-sony-applies-for-rfid-drm-patent-that-would-block-used-games.html http://www.techspot.com/news/51227-sony-applies-for-rfid-drm...
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Oh, cool. That's very interesting. I curse it because it seems even more insidious and because I can't believe the next gen of consoles is even shipping with an internal optical drive... but I digress. Thanks for the link!
- mparlane 13y ago
  I can't reply to you drivebyacct... no idea why. But the games for the Xbox One MUST be serializable, how else would it know the difference between a install of a disc on one console and another? Put in disc. Installs to hdd, checks in with MS. Take out disc. Something stops you just putting that disc in to a mates Xbox One. So obviously they do have something similar to Sony's patent. Or every disc has a unique serial written to the small inner sector of the disc?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Just put a code into the game case that allows for discless play, and require an online connection to install the game to the hd and unlock it for discless play. Not rocket science.

drivebyacct2 13y ago
Okay, so now it's just two-for-one. Now I get to buy and play Halo5 and then give the disc to my brother.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  And? Some people will take advantage of it, most won't because it's too much of a hassle. Look at netflix back when it was just a disc-based service. Just get as many DVDs delivered as possible, rip them to your HD and then pop them back in the mail. Some people did that. Most didn't. Also, the Xbox One HD is only 500 GB, you can't install quite so many games (delivered on blu-ray) before it gets full.
  - jonny_eh 13y ago
    You're being rational about DRM, that's not going to get you anywhere.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    The difference is that ripping a DVD continues to be a pain in the ass for most people, while "ripping" the game disk will presumably be something the XBox makes seamless.
sivam 13y ago
>Just put a code into the game case that allows for discless play, and require an online connection to install the game to the hd and unlock it for discless play. Not rocket science It is rocket science apparently Person A does what you said and goes on a cruise ship playing the game before giving the disc to Person B. Person B takes his disc, installs the game with an online connection. The server has no way of telling that Person A is still playing the game on his cruise. Person B finishes installing, goes to a camping trip before giving the disc to Person C.... Person C installs the game, unplugs the network from the Xbox and gives the disc to Person D...

Retric 13y ago

With about 30 seconds of thought. You can still play the game without uploading so each game represents 2 copy's. Require an activation code to "load" the game which you can get automatically online or with a phone call. Require someone to unload the game which spits about a 6 digit code before you can upload it again. Make a fast online check to see if anyone registered the game via a partial code on the outside of the box for the used game market. Don't let the disk play online content while "loaded" on a separate XBOX. Allow someone to declare an Xbox as broken, lost, or stolen.

drivebyacct2 13y ago
Or register the game to your account and then be able to share it immediately, wirelessly across the country with 10 "family" members and being able to resell the digital copy. But noooooo, codes and short codes and registration verification sounds way better. >_< I guess this is so frustrating for me because I worked on a licensing system and had to deal with the hundreds of little places it could be attacked in ways that aren't obvious if you haven't worked in the problem space before.
- bornhuetter 13y ago
  That's probably because you were trying to come up with a system this is more restrictive than the traditional physical media system (where you could share or sell a single physical item), but with concessions. There is a very simple and obvious solution - internet connection required on activation or deactivation (for trade). I have not read a single good argument against this system anywhere.
- Retric 13y ago
  I dont think you understood what i said. The codes are transparent if someone is connected to the Internet. The reason I added them is to add functionality. Also, I would suggest a pure digital copy shuld probably have more permissive digital lending features as a selling point, but there is no reason not to add them for a "loaded" game.