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Saw this a while back. It looks like a fun little project for Docker. What I'd be more interested in is seeing a more robust version of something like this (and

by druiid 13y ago

Saw this a while back. It looks like a fun little project for Docker. What I'd be more interested in is seeing a more robust version of something like this (and the author mentions it on his Github). Things like scaling ability and similar would be cool. It certainly would move it from the realm of 'smallest PaaS', but for my uses at least it's not very useful without being able to do any sort of multi-tenancy/multi-host type stuff. If anyone is aware of a Docker project being worked on like that. I'd be very interested in seeing it as well.

progrium 13y ago
I was talking to somebody in the Docker IRC channel that was using some of the same Dokku components to build a more distributed version of Dokku. Not sure if it's released yet. Part of the goal of Dokku is to define some components that would work just as well in a distributed fashion if the components were distributed. By deferring that complexity, I can focus on making something simple and modular that should be easier to do as a distributed system later. My involvement in Docker in the early stages was with this same thought in mind. Docker was designed to be a component to build things like a PaaS, as well as many other things. Much like the other components of Dokku. The end result is a loosely defined "toolkit" that you can build your own variation of a PaaS with whatever requirements you might have.
shykes 13y ago
There are several ongoing projects to orchestrate deployment to a cluster of multiple docker hosts. Docker is designed to be easily dropped into a distributed system, which helps. For example, there is an Openstack integration [1], Hipache and Nginx integration for load balancing [2] [3], and I know several people are exploring integration with Apache Mesos and Zookeeper. There's also a Velociraptor/Docker integration [4]. Lastly, I've seen a lot of ops teams plug docker into their own deployment tools, but those are generally not open-source. Feel free to drop by the IRC channel (#docker@freenode) to chat some more! [1] http://github.com/dotcloud/openstack-docker http://github.com/dotcloud/openstack-docker [2] http://index.docker.io/u/samalba/hipache http://index.docker.io/u/samalba/hipache [3] http://github.com/dotcloud/hipache http://github.com/dotcloud/hipache [4] https://bitbucket.org/yougov/velociraptor https://bitbucket.org/yougov/velociraptor
- shykes 13y ago
  There's also Gaffer by Benoit Chesneau [1], a distributed process manager which is being integrated into Docker. [1] https://github.com/benoitc/gaffer https://github.com/benoitc/gaffer
- druiid 13y ago
  I did see the openstack Docker integration and it seems like a very interesting prospect. Hopefully something that will be integrated into the core Openstack project (although perhaps it might be better to integrate LXC into Openstack and then feed Docker through that). The one thing I haven't seen any real solution for is the scaling/autoscaling portion of the equation. I think if that can be solved for, the rest would just be window-dressing on top of the Docker core.
  - progrium 13y ago
    First, OpenStack is a poor abstraction for what most people want. I don't even think it's worth bothering with if you can help it. Docker is what people should (and will) be building tools around instead of OpenStack. Docker integration in OpenStack is neat and even fun, but to me a distraction. Autoscaling is interesting because it's only one part of a more complex problem of distributed orchestration. There might not be a good general purpose solution to this for a while. Every organization has different policies and requirements for scheduling resources. Docker was designed to be driven by any sort of automation at that level, but specifically avoids solving that problem. But there's plenty out there to help you put together this solution for yourself. I'm curious what exactly you're waiting for in a solution.
    - amscanne 13y ago
      How exactly is OpenStack a poor abstraction for what people want?
      - wisesascha 13y ago
        Many people want to run a certain piece of software in its own machine and docker allows that. Some people thing OpenStack is the right choice for that. OpenStack is great if you are running your servers through AWS, but you want to transition to a self hosted system then you would use OpenStack. In other words its great for building a IaaS but not a PaaS
opdemand 13y ago
OpDemand is working on exactly what you're describing. Heroku-style private PaaS with emphasis on control over instances, routing layer, hosting providers, etc. Current version has full scaling support (instances, processes & nginx proxies). It's based on Docker, Heroku buildpacks all glued together via Chef server. It'll be released under Apache license. More to come...
- druiid 13y ago
  I've seen your guys site before actually. I thought you were a Puppet house, not Chef though? Sounds interesting to be sure though! I'll keep an eye on your site.
sciurus 13y ago
If you want your own PaaS that scales, take look at Red Hat's OpenShift. https://www.openshift.com/open-source https://www.openshift.com/open-source
- progrium 13y ago
  Or CloudFoundry.
- druiid 13y ago
  Openshift per the #openshift channel only currently supports scaling of HTTP resources (I'm a bit surprised about that). I currently use Cloudify, but have had some... issues and they use a Java agent which is pretty memory heavy, so I'm working on alternatives. Cloud Foundry is about the only other viable option I've found so far.
  - progrium 13y ago
    This HTTP bias has been my problem with the approach of most platform services since the beginning.
    - druiid 13y ago
      Same here. Most seem to expect you to do the Heroku route and just run your database off of another cloud service... well, what if I DON'T want to do that? The answer seems to be oh well for many projects. Frustrating for sure.

by druiid 13y ago

progrium 13y ago

I was talking to somebody in the Docker IRC channel that was using some of the same Dokku components to build a more distributed version of Dokku. Not sure if it's released yet. Part of the goal of Dokku is to define some components that would work just as well in a distributed fashion if the components were distributed. By deferring that complexity, I can focus on making something simple and modular that should be easier to do as a distributed system later. My involvement in Docker in the early stages was with this same thought in mind. Docker was designed to be a component to build things like a PaaS, as well as many other things. Much like the other components of Dokku. The end result is a loosely defined "toolkit" that you can build your own variation of a PaaS with whatever requirements you might have.

shykes 13y ago

There are several ongoing projects to orchestrate deployment to a cluster of multiple docker hosts. Docker is designed to be easily dropped into a distributed system, which helps. For example, there is an Openstack integration [1], Hipache and Nginx integration for load balancing [2] [3], and I know several people are exploring integration with Apache Mesos and Zookeeper. There's also a Velociraptor/Docker integration [4]. Lastly, I've seen a lot of ops teams plug docker into their own deployment tools, but those are generally not open-source. Feel free to drop by the IRC channel (#docker@freenode) to chat some more! [1] http://github.com/dotcloud/openstack-docker http://github.com/dotcloud/openstack-docker [2] http://index.docker.io/u/samalba/hipache http://index.docker.io/u/samalba/hipache [3] http://github.com/dotcloud/hipache http://github.com/dotcloud/hipache [4] https://bitbucket.org/yougov/velociraptor https://bitbucket.org/yougov/velociraptor

shykes 13y ago
There's also Gaffer by Benoit Chesneau [1], a distributed process manager which is being integrated into Docker. [1] https://github.com/benoitc/gaffer https://github.com/benoitc/gaffer
druiid 13y ago
I did see the openstack Docker integration and it seems like a very interesting prospect. Hopefully something that will be integrated into the core Openstack project (although perhaps it might be better to integrate LXC into Openstack and then feed Docker through that). The one thing I haven't seen any real solution for is the scaling/autoscaling portion of the equation. I think if that can be solved for, the rest would just be window-dressing on top of the Docker core.
- progrium 13y ago
  First, OpenStack is a poor abstraction for what most people want. I don't even think it's worth bothering with if you can help it. Docker is what people should (and will) be building tools around instead of OpenStack. Docker integration in OpenStack is neat and even fun, but to me a distraction. Autoscaling is interesting because it's only one part of a more complex problem of distributed orchestration. There might not be a good general purpose solution to this for a while. Every organization has different policies and requirements for scheduling resources. Docker was designed to be driven by any sort of automation at that level, but specifically avoids solving that problem. But there's plenty out there to help you put together this solution for yourself. I'm curious what exactly you're waiting for in a solution.
  - amscanne 13y ago
    How exactly is OpenStack a poor abstraction for what people want?
    - wisesascha 13y ago
      Many people want to run a certain piece of software in its own machine and docker allows that. Some people thing OpenStack is the right choice for that. OpenStack is great if you are running your servers through AWS, but you want to transition to a self hosted system then you would use OpenStack. In other words its great for building a IaaS but not a PaaS

opdemand 13y ago

OpDemand is working on exactly what you're describing. Heroku-style private PaaS with emphasis on control over instances, routing layer, hosting providers, etc. Current version has full scaling support (instances, processes & nginx proxies). It's based on Docker, Heroku buildpacks all glued together via Chef server. It'll be released under Apache license. More to come...

druiid 13y ago
I've seen your guys site before actually. I thought you were a Puppet house, not Chef though? Sounds interesting to be sure though! I'll keep an eye on your site.

sciurus 13y ago

If you want your own PaaS that scales, take look at Red Hat's OpenShift. https://www.openshift.com/open-source https://www.openshift.com/open-source

progrium 13y ago
Or CloudFoundry.
druiid 13y ago
Openshift per the #openshift channel only currently supports scaling of HTTP resources (I'm a bit surprised about that). I currently use Cloudify, but have had some... issues and they use a Java agent which is pretty memory heavy, so I'm working on alternatives. Cloud Foundry is about the only other viable option I've found so far.
- progrium 13y ago
  This HTTP bias has been my problem with the approach of most platform services since the beginning.
  - druiid 13y ago
    Same here. Most seem to expect you to do the Heroku route and just run your database off of another cloud service... well, what if I DON'T want to do that? The answer seems to be oh well for many projects. Frustrating for sure.