6 ms·

Where is the "Works better on Google Chrome" badge?

by alvivi 13y ago

mbsuperstar1 13y ago
Google Chrome has yet to implement the DartVM, I believe the OilPan memory experiment allowing for multiple languages to interact with the DOM without leaks is experimental still. Secondly, Dart compiles to efficient Javascript and works on all modern browsers.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- azakai 13y ago
  Sounds interesting, is there more information on that that I can read?
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Check out https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/blink-dev/V1vJmirHUGE https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/?fromgroups#!... or just look for oilpan on blink-dev. I haven't seen anything about Dart (the big win would be eliminating the really slow DOM "GC" cycles on the webkit/blink side of things), but it would be interesting if this opened the way for easier VM integration. My understanding was that post-webkit they were tying v8 deeper into blink, though, not allowing more flexibility...
    - azakai 13y ago
      Thanks, yeah, that was my guess too (fix leaks by GCing DOM stuff, which is a nice idea), I was surprised to hear it was related to Dart somehow. I can't seem to find anything online explaining a connection between them (is it just speculation?).
      - dwischusen 13y ago
        See http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=huawCRlo9H4#t=2848s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hua...
        azakai 13y ago
        Thanks!
mythz 13y ago
There's no Dart VM in Chrome atm. So any Dart app in Chrome has to run the same compiled JS like every other modern browser.
spankalee 13y ago
Right next to the "Works better on Firefox" badge for asm.js?
- pcwalton 13y ago
  asm.js is just JavaScript. It is not remotely comparable to Dart.
  - mythz 13y ago
    Which compiles to JavaScript with Dart2JS.
    - pcwalton 13y ago
      That's correct. There is basically nothing comparable between asm.js (which is a subset of JS with a JavaScript interpreter optimized for it) and Dart (which is a language that currently compiles to JS with no special compiler optimizations in any engine that I'm aware of). When Google starts shipping the Dart VM, then it will be a different story, of course. It will still not be comparable to asm.js, because asm.js runs in all browsers without the site author having to do anything (which would not be the case if Google shipped the Dart VM, as it would then be possible, and convenient, to write pages that only worked in Chrome).
      - mythz 13y ago
        Only Firefox uses a separate special interpreter (Odin Monkey) for asm.js - Chrome's asm.js improvements come from optimizing the same V8 JS pipeline. Having a separate compilation pipeline can be viewed as a disadvantage since any optimizations for speeding up asm.js doesn't improve JS performance: http://mrale.ph/blog/2013/03/28/why-asmjs-bothers-me.html http://mrale.ph/blog/2013/03/28/why-asmjs-bothers-me.html > It will still not be comparable to asm.js, because asm.js runs in all browsers without the site author having to do anything Dart web apps will continue to run in all browsers just as it runs today through Dart2JS, it even has great source maps support which lets you debug native Dart code even though it's running transpiled JS. There's nothing special the "author" would have to do, it already exists as part of the project template, e.g. if the browser has a Dart VM it will run the Dart code natively, otherwise it will run the Dart2JS version. Since some Dart benchmarks http://www.dartlang.org/performance/ http://www.dartlang.org/performance/ show Dart2JS outperforming handwritten JS in V8 even with the overhead of different semantics, I'm assuming that Dart2JS compiles to efficient JS that developers wouldn't write. > because asm.js runs in all browsers runs is a technically interesting term, there are some asm.js demos that you would not attempt to run without asm.js specific optimizations (i.e. not Firefox) since it would be unusably slow. This is visible in the Epic Citadel http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ flagship asm.js demo where it needs a Firefox Nightly release to run. The demo doesn't let you run it in IE10 and whilst it lets you try run it in the latest Chrome, but it crashes. Even Firefox ended up reverting a correction fix (deviating from their JS SpiderMonkey VM) in OdinMonkey because it would invalidate its type checker and cause this demo to run with their normal (i.e. unoptimized asm.js) JS engine: https://plus.google.com/111090511249453178320/posts/cr4jTsfxVg8 https://plus.google.com/111090511249453178320/posts/cr4jTsfx... So whilst it can in theory technically still run since its "just JavaScript", it can currently be either a broken, or unusable experience if you don't use Firefox.

Where is the "Works better on Google Chrome" badge?

by alvivi 13y ago

Where is the "Works better on Google Chrome" badge?

Google Chrome has yet to implement the DartVM, I believe the OilPan memory experiment allowing for multiple languages to interact with the DOM without leaks is experimental still. Secondly, Dart compiles to efficient Javascript and works on all modern browsers.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
azakai 13y ago
Sounds interesting, is there more information on that that I can read?
- magicalist 13y ago
  Check out https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/blink-dev/V1vJmirHUGE https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/?fromgroups#!... or just look for oilpan on blink-dev. I haven't seen anything about Dart (the big win would be eliminating the really slow DOM "GC" cycles on the webkit/blink side of things), but it would be interesting if this opened the way for easier VM integration. My understanding was that post-webkit they were tying v8 deeper into blink, though, not allowing more flexibility...
  - azakai 13y ago
    Thanks, yeah, that was my guess too (fix leaks by GCing DOM stuff, which is a nice idea), I was surprised to hear it was related to Dart somehow. I can't seem to find anything online explaining a connection between them (is it just speculation?).
    - dwischusen 13y ago
      See http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=huawCRlo9H4#t=2848s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hua...
      - azakai 13y ago
        Thanks!

mythz 13y ago

There's no Dart VM in Chrome atm. So any Dart app in Chrome has to run the same compiled JS like every other modern browser.

spankalee 13y ago

Right next to the "Works better on Firefox" badge for asm.js?

pcwalton 13y ago
asm.js is just JavaScript. It is not remotely comparable to Dart.
- mythz 13y ago
  Which compiles to JavaScript with Dart2JS.
  - pcwalton 13y ago
    That's correct. There is basically nothing comparable between asm.js (which is a subset of JS with a JavaScript interpreter optimized for it) and Dart (which is a language that currently compiles to JS with no special compiler optimizations in any engine that I'm aware of). When Google starts shipping the Dart VM, then it will be a different story, of course. It will still not be comparable to asm.js, because asm.js runs in all browsers without the site author having to do anything (which would not be the case if Google shipped the Dart VM, as it would then be possible, and convenient, to write pages that only worked in Chrome).
    - mythz 13y ago
      Only Firefox uses a separate special interpreter (Odin Monkey) for asm.js - Chrome's asm.js improvements come from optimizing the same V8 JS pipeline. Having a separate compilation pipeline can be viewed as a disadvantage since any optimizations for speeding up asm.js doesn't improve JS performance: http://mrale.ph/blog/2013/03/28/why-asmjs-bothers-me.html http://mrale.ph/blog/2013/03/28/why-asmjs-bothers-me.html > It will still not be comparable to asm.js, because asm.js runs in all browsers without the site author having to do anything Dart web apps will continue to run in all browsers just as it runs today through Dart2JS, it even has great source maps support which lets you debug native Dart code even though it's running transpiled JS. There's nothing special the "author" would have to do, it already exists as part of the project template, e.g. if the browser has a Dart VM it will run the Dart code natively, otherwise it will run the Dart2JS version. Since some Dart benchmarks http://www.dartlang.org/performance/ http://www.dartlang.org/performance/ show Dart2JS outperforming handwritten JS in V8 even with the overhead of different semantics, I'm assuming that Dart2JS compiles to efficient JS that developers wouldn't write. > because asm.js runs in all browsers runs is a technically interesting term, there are some asm.js demos that you would not attempt to run without asm.js specific optimizations (i.e. not Firefox) since it would be unusably slow. This is visible in the Epic Citadel http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ flagship asm.js demo where it needs a Firefox Nightly release to run. The demo doesn't let you run it in IE10 and whilst it lets you try run it in the latest Chrome, but it crashes. Even Firefox ended up reverting a correction fix (deviating from their JS SpiderMonkey VM) in OdinMonkey because it would invalidate its type checker and cause this demo to run with their normal (i.e. unoptimized asm.js) JS engine: https://plus.google.com/111090511249453178320/posts/cr4jTsfxVg8 https://plus.google.com/111090511249453178320/posts/cr4jTsfx... So whilst it can in theory technically still run since its "just JavaScript", it can currently be either a broken, or unusable experience if you don't use Firefox.