5 ms·

The problem wasn't that those things were free, but that homelessness and poverty are systemic issues that aren't actually meaningfully tackled. Even in places

The problem wasn't that those things were free, but that homelessness and poverty are systemic issues that aren't actually meaningfully tackled. Even in places with token free transit systems, the homeless still occupy those spaces and will continue to do so.

scarmig 13y ago
Homelessness and poverty are different issues: although some people might not want to ride with simply poor people, that's a miniscule group compared with those who don't want to be in a confined space with a homeless person who is likely unhygienic, drugged up, or (non-exclusive) mentally unstable. Saying "free would work much better if there weren't homeless people" is probably true, but that is a pretty big supposition in lots of cities. Those cities without a homeless problem should feel free to experiment with free transit.
- king_jester 13y ago
  > Homelessness and poverty are different issues: although some people might not want to ride with simply poor people, that's a miniscule group compared with those who don't want to be in a confined space with a homeless person who is likely unhygienic, drugged up, or (non-exclusive) mentally unstable. Homelessness and poverty are related, but you are right in that stigma against the homeless and/or the poor makes a barrier in people's perception of taking mass transit. Some places with robust mass transit have better outcomes than others, so this is something that has to have available options to combat that in culture. > Saying "free would work much better if there weren't homeless people" is probably true, but that is a pretty big supposition in lots of cities. Those cities without a homeless problem should feel free to experiment with free transit. I'm not saying its a either or proposition, but making free mass transit needs to be coupled with other actions and policies that also help to deal with homeless by providing more stable shelter, facilities, economic opportunity, etc. Of course, there is no city in the US that does not have a homeless population, so that is always going to be a factor.
jlgreco 13y ago
Those are two separate issues. Few people other than caricature billionaires from 80s movies would care about impoverished people riding the buses. Homeless people camping out on them is another matter entirely.
- sharkweek 13y ago
  For anyone in Seattle here -- I'm assuming you're all familiar with the infamous 358; godbless the Aurora corridor between Lynnwood and Downtown But seriously -- I think the visibility of homelessness on mass transit is a great reminder personally that there is a massive need for policy shifts that continually aim to decrease homelessness, which is otherwise just a statistic to many.
- king_jester 13y ago
  Available public and semi public spaces are very directly related to homelessness and mass transit is such a space. I've lived in a variety of places and people still continue to use mass transit even if occupied by someone who is homeless. The issue is that doing something for members of society by undertaking free transit has to be coupled with tactics that address the inequalities that allow homelessness to be pervasive or to consume resources that aren't really meant to deal with homelessness.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    I'm having some trouble parsing your last sentence, but I think I agree. We need to have programs that tackle homelessness, but asking programs that have other mission statements to bear this burden is asking too much. Tackling homelessness itself is not the job of a transit department; their job is providing clean, safe, and effective transportation.
    - king_jester 13y ago
      Totally agree. I just like to point out that transit systems do have a relationship with homelessness, but of course they are not suited to completely handle that social problem and there needs to be a more comprehensive approach to address social inequality.

scarmig 13y ago

Homelessness and poverty are different issues: although some people might not want to ride with simply poor people, that's a miniscule group compared with those who don't want to be in a confined space with a homeless person who is likely unhygienic, drugged up, or (non-exclusive) mentally unstable. Saying "free would work much better if there weren't homeless people" is probably true, but that is a pretty big supposition in lots of cities. Those cities without a homeless problem should feel free to experiment with free transit.

king_jester 13y ago
> Homelessness and poverty are different issues: although some people might not want to ride with simply poor people, that's a miniscule group compared with those who don't want to be in a confined space with a homeless person who is likely unhygienic, drugged up, or (non-exclusive) mentally unstable. Homelessness and poverty are related, but you are right in that stigma against the homeless and/or the poor makes a barrier in people's perception of taking mass transit. Some places with robust mass transit have better outcomes than others, so this is something that has to have available options to combat that in culture. > Saying "free would work much better if there weren't homeless people" is probably true, but that is a pretty big supposition in lots of cities. Those cities without a homeless problem should feel free to experiment with free transit. I'm not saying its a either or proposition, but making free mass transit needs to be coupled with other actions and policies that also help to deal with homeless by providing more stable shelter, facilities, economic opportunity, etc. Of course, there is no city in the US that does not have a homeless population, so that is always going to be a factor.

jlgreco 13y ago

Those are two separate issues. Few people other than caricature billionaires from 80s movies would care about impoverished people riding the buses. Homeless people camping out on them is another matter entirely.

sharkweek 13y ago
For anyone in Seattle here -- I'm assuming you're all familiar with the infamous 358; godbless the Aurora corridor between Lynnwood and Downtown But seriously -- I think the visibility of homelessness on mass transit is a great reminder personally that there is a massive need for policy shifts that continually aim to decrease homelessness, which is otherwise just a statistic to many.
king_jester 13y ago
Available public and semi public spaces are very directly related to homelessness and mass transit is such a space. I've lived in a variety of places and people still continue to use mass transit even if occupied by someone who is homeless. The issue is that doing something for members of society by undertaking free transit has to be coupled with tactics that address the inequalities that allow homelessness to be pervasive or to consume resources that aren't really meant to deal with homelessness.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I'm having some trouble parsing your last sentence, but I think I agree. We need to have programs that tackle homelessness, but asking programs that have other mission statements to bear this burden is asking too much. Tackling homelessness itself is not the job of a transit department; their job is providing clean, safe, and effective transportation.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    Totally agree. I just like to point out that transit systems do have a relationship with homelessness, but of course they are not suited to completely handle that social problem and there needs to be a more comprehensive approach to address social inequality.