4 ms·

This is an interesting idea, but it has its unseen challenges. The very first issue is regulatory. Because the addition of passangers does present a real cost

This is an interesting idea, but it has its unseen challenges. The very first issue is regulatory. Because the addition of passangers does present a real cost to bus companies, no tracking device on how many passengers it has has difficulties from a regulatory standpoint. This may sound silly, but its a reality of life, such as when you give a free trial product to people owning a creditcard. Currently, buses in buenos aires are ridicolously cheaper than cars, yet by culture, people really love buying cars. An hour's parking lot fee in the center of the city costs more than a week of bus fare. Making it free would not be a change of paradigm. Buses are packed, and so are trains and subways. If subsidizing increased not only to cover fares, but to improve infrastructure and service, you are also servicing people with cars, making those more interesting. (less traffic -> also better to go around in cars). Although this could help a lot, i dont think its a paradigm shift unless people with cars are paying the public transportation. But that of course, present the other challenges, which is, what about people not having public transportation coverage from one point to another, and how would you administer such a route in a way that you dont charge him penalties. I honestly believe that in big cities, cars are an expensive hinderance. Using a cab every single time you go out is still cheaper than buying one.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> The very first issue is regulatory. Because the addition of passangers does present a real cost to bus companies, no tracking device on how many passengers it has has difficulties from a regulatory standpoint. Counting passengers can be done without charging anything.
- conanbatt 13y ago
  If you use the national ID for it, the encumbrance is still there. Similar to what i mentioned about credit cards and free trials: even people with credit cards dont like to enter those! For truly massive use being free and unregulated for the user is great. For the compnay, however, that could report they had "20 million visitors today" and ask for more funding for that. Maybe im too cynical, but it happens. I still suspect the bus lines as the reason why coins are in shortage since 2007, when coins started to be valued more for their mint value than their nominal one. Charging people means the bus company has to be able to account for it with money (say, we had 1000 passanger, so 1000 fares income), so it is itself a tool for regulation.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > If you use the national ID for it, the encumbrance is still there. But its not there if you use driver-operated counters combined with random audits against the already-present in-vehicle surveillance cameras. Or, probably any of large number of other alternatives that don't rely on the rider carrying a payment/identity/etc. card to get the free ride.
markbao 13y ago
Are the buses in Buenos Aires cheap for those who live there? I remember it was around 1.70 pesos (about $0.40 at the official exchange rate) which, to me, is ridiculously cheap, but I wasn't sure if it was seen as cheap by the locals due to disparity of income. On another note, I loved the buses in Buenos Aires. They were cheap and went everywhere, though I could never figure out the Guia T. The 39 was my regular line and I took that thing everywhere.
- conanbatt 13y ago
  It is still 1.70 pesos. Just getting on a cab is 10 pesos, parking is between 15-20 pesos the hour. Buses have their ups and downs here. They are too irregular and unpredictable (you can wait up to 1h for a bus that exists its station every 15 mins). There are many ill maintained ones. 1.70 is ridicolously low in relative terms to other expenditures. A liter of gas is almost 10 pesos. Compared to the base salary with is around 2k, is still a very low part of the wage. Long time ago, differential buses were common. They cost 3x, but you would always travel seated, with AC and mostly on time. Bottom line is that for mobility, people LOVE the subway, although it has its issues as well.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> The very first issue is regulatory. Because the addition of passangers does present a real cost to bus companies, no tracking device on how many passengers it has has difficulties from a regulatory standpoint. Counting passengers can be done without charging anything.

conanbatt 13y ago
If you use the national ID for it, the encumbrance is still there. Similar to what i mentioned about credit cards and free trials: even people with credit cards dont like to enter those! For truly massive use being free and unregulated for the user is great. For the compnay, however, that could report they had "20 million visitors today" and ask for more funding for that. Maybe im too cynical, but it happens. I still suspect the bus lines as the reason why coins are in shortage since 2007, when coins started to be valued more for their mint value than their nominal one. Charging people means the bus company has to be able to account for it with money (say, we had 1000 passanger, so 1000 fares income), so it is itself a tool for regulation.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > If you use the national ID for it, the encumbrance is still there. But its not there if you use driver-operated counters combined with random audits against the already-present in-vehicle surveillance cameras. Or, probably any of large number of other alternatives that don't rely on the rider carrying a payment/identity/etc. card to get the free ride.

markbao 13y ago

Are the buses in Buenos Aires cheap for those who live there? I remember it was around 1.70 pesos (about $0.40 at the official exchange rate) which, to me, is ridiculously cheap, but I wasn't sure if it was seen as cheap by the locals due to disparity of income. On another note, I loved the buses in Buenos Aires. They were cheap and went everywhere, though I could never figure out the Guia T. The 39 was my regular line and I took that thing everywhere.

conanbatt 13y ago
It is still 1.70 pesos. Just getting on a cab is 10 pesos, parking is between 15-20 pesos the hour. Buses have their ups and downs here. They are too irregular and unpredictable (you can wait up to 1h for a bus that exists its station every 15 mins). There are many ill maintained ones. 1.70 is ridicolously low in relative terms to other expenditures. A liter of gas is almost 10 pesos. Compared to the base salary with is around 2k, is still a very low part of the wage. Long time ago, differential buses were common. They cost 3x, but you would always travel seated, with AC and mostly on time. Bottom line is that for mobility, people LOVE the subway, although it has its issues as well.