4 ms·

So, do you think it would be a good idea to turn all public roads into toll roads? After all, building and maintaining a road system is extremely expensive in t

So, do you think it would be a good idea to turn all public roads into toll roads? After all, building and maintaining a road system is extremely expensive in terms of resources, both in terms of equipment expenses, salaries (for employees who could be providing other benefits to society instead of building and maintaining roads), and use of land. If you just make the roads free to use, people may take more roundabout trips to get to where they need to go, just to be able to make use of the free roads, causing inefficiency and waste.

drcode 13y ago
> So, do you think it would be a good idea to turn all public roads into toll roads? yes.
- bluthru 13y ago
  Why? So you can turn a city into a gated community?
  - abraininavat 13y ago
    Perhaps because he likes the idea of poverty being a pit that's progressively harder to dig your way out of. Don't have the money to pay for the road access which will get you to your job? Should've thought about that and been rich in the first place!
    - drcode 13y ago
      In the US we've built a system where the cost of car ownership is mostly hidden (because of gas subsidies and hidden infrastrucure costs) If we fix this, then it may lead to an improved public transportation network, which would help poor people.
- scarmig 13y ago
  Shouldn't this actually be an empirical question? There are wasted costs in extracting a toll: it takes away minutes of time from tens or hundreds of thousands of commuters, costs extra gas which is itself heavily subsidized, increases the chance of getting into an accident, requires an initial capital outlay, maintenance, and salaries for related workers, costs money to enforce penalties for cheaters. Sometimes the value the road provides heavily outweighs all these costs, in which case a toll makes sense. But every road? I'm skeptical. We can imagine (expensive!) systems that governments could use to track which cars go where, resulting in a monthly use fee. But some system of satellites visually tracking your every movement or a mandate that you have a GPS tracking device on your car that reports to the government is... problematic in lots of ways.
  - drcode 13y ago
    The same argument could be made to say the government should be in charge of running all the phone networks. Instead, I think everyone would agree its better to have a multitude of cell network providers (unfortunately government regulations prevent us from having more than we currently do) that compete for your business. The same should be true for roads, in my opinion (of course we're drifting away from the OP and there's many arguments that can be made against privatized road networks, we'll have to save that discussion for another day)
    - saraid216 13y ago
      > The same argument could be made to say the government should be in charge of running all the phone networks. I would prefer that. Tax us for it and make it free for usage.
      - drcode 13y ago
        no comment.
        saraid216 13y ago
        Perhaps you should learn to make fewer non-absurd ad absurdiam arguments? It's fine that you have an ideology, but recognize that other people may disagree with your basic premises.
        drcode 13y ago
        Obviously, an observant HN reader can obsequiously observe whether it was an absurd or unabsurd ad absurdum observation.
  - Thrymr 13y ago
    Much easier to tax gasoline as a proxy for driving on roads, and that has the added benefit of further incentivizing efficiency. Of course, that was the original intent of gas taxes, but they are far too low. Good luck trying to raise them.

drcode 13y ago

> So, do you think it would be a good idea to turn all public roads into toll roads? yes.

bluthru 13y ago
Why? So you can turn a city into a gated community?
- abraininavat 13y ago
  Perhaps because he likes the idea of poverty being a pit that's progressively harder to dig your way out of. Don't have the money to pay for the road access which will get you to your job? Should've thought about that and been rich in the first place!
  - drcode 13y ago
    In the US we've built a system where the cost of car ownership is mostly hidden (because of gas subsidies and hidden infrastrucure costs) If we fix this, then it may lead to an improved public transportation network, which would help poor people.
scarmig 13y ago
Shouldn't this actually be an empirical question? There are wasted costs in extracting a toll: it takes away minutes of time from tens or hundreds of thousands of commuters, costs extra gas which is itself heavily subsidized, increases the chance of getting into an accident, requires an initial capital outlay, maintenance, and salaries for related workers, costs money to enforce penalties for cheaters. Sometimes the value the road provides heavily outweighs all these costs, in which case a toll makes sense. But every road? I'm skeptical. We can imagine (expensive!) systems that governments could use to track which cars go where, resulting in a monthly use fee. But some system of satellites visually tracking your every movement or a mandate that you have a GPS tracking device on your car that reports to the government is... problematic in lots of ways.
- drcode 13y ago
  The same argument could be made to say the government should be in charge of running all the phone networks. Instead, I think everyone would agree its better to have a multitude of cell network providers (unfortunately government regulations prevent us from having more than we currently do) that compete for your business. The same should be true for roads, in my opinion (of course we're drifting away from the OP and there's many arguments that can be made against privatized road networks, we'll have to save that discussion for another day)
  - saraid216 13y ago
    > The same argument could be made to say the government should be in charge of running all the phone networks. I would prefer that. Tax us for it and make it free for usage.
    - drcode 13y ago
      no comment.
      - saraid216 13y ago
        Perhaps you should learn to make fewer non-absurd ad absurdiam arguments? It's fine that you have an ideology, but recognize that other people may disagree with your basic premises.
        drcode 13y ago
        Obviously, an observant HN reader can obsequiously observe whether it was an absurd or unabsurd ad absurdum observation.
- Thrymr 13y ago
  Much easier to tax gasoline as a proxy for driving on roads, and that has the added benefit of further incentivizing efficiency. Of course, that was the original intent of gas taxes, but they are far too low. Good luck trying to raise them.