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Prices also help keep the foul-smelling derelicts off the bus. Maybe you think "well, foul-smelling derelicts deserve to ride the bus." And you could well be r
by danielweber 13y ago
Prices also help keep the foul-smelling derelicts off the bus.
Maybe you think "well, foul-smelling derelicts deserve to ride the bus." And you could well be right.
But other people won't ride the bus with the foul-smelling derelicts.
If your goal is have a bus system you can feel happy about, this isn't a problem. If your goal is to have a bus system that people actually use, this is a big problem.
- mullingitover 13y agoSo in a nutshell, your argument is that if the public transportation were free, nobody would use it because it's too crowded?
- danielweber 13y agoIt takes very very few derelicts to make the bus system too crowded to use.
- Shivetya 13y agowhen it becomes free how do you keep people from living on it?
- ben0x539 13y agoGive them a better option?
- abraininavat 13y agoCrazy talk. Clearly they have housing and jobs, they just like living on the bus!
- paulhauggis 13y agoI feel like you would like this, to punish society for not "giving them a better option".
- scarmig 13y agoWhatever the merits of the argument, that's obviously not it. A bus full of people commuting to jobs is getting more use than a bus a quarter full of rank homeless men with lice dropping off of them and otherwise empty because no one wants to be near them. I would argue, though, that a bigger problem is that prices don't wholly fix even that problem. Evidence: a casual ride on the non-free San Francisco area BART, which is full of homeless people who ride it all non-peak hours because it's more comfortable than sitting on the sidewalk. When I've been in Asian or European cities, that's simply not an issue.
- specialist 13y agoI've gotten off buses because of stinky people. The fix is to provide sanitation and hygiene resources. I would never want to deter, filter, screen any person (who is not harming others) from public services. Tolls, fares, fees, onerous parking and impound rules, etc are a way to separate "us" from "them". It's becoming more acute as inequity continues to increase (in the USA).
- jpadkins 13y agostinky people aren't caused by lack of access to sanitation and hygiene resources in America. It's much more likely to be a personality or mental disorder.
- abraininavat 13y agoMental disorders are caused in large part by lack of access to jobs and housing[]. Do you not think that a lack of access to jobs and housing contribute to a lack of access to sanitation and hygiene? http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.html http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.ht...
- redblacktree 13y agoIs their stink harming you? Honest question.
- sliverstorm 13y agoDoes something have to cause physical harm to be extremely unpleasant?
- redblacktree 13y agoThe point was that maybe someone who's extremely stinky is harming others, and thus could be legitimately > deter[ed], filter[ed], screen[ed] [...] from public services.
- king_jester 13y agoMaking transit free isn't going to solve homelessness. Also, plenty of people still ride transit even if someone they dislike is on said transit because they depend on that transit, unpleasant ride or not.
- danielweber 13y agoWe don't need to encourage people who depend on the bus to ride it, because they depend on it. We need to encourage people who are otherwise riding cars to ride the bus. Sometimes the strategy for that is to make driving cars suck, but that is a political loser before it even starts.
- mullingitover 13y agoOr just add congestion fees for cars entering the city center, and use those revenues to fund citywide public transportation.
- danielweber 13y ago"Funding" isn't the issue. You want the bus system to be good enough that people want to use it. I'm sure there are several dozen people who live within 2 miles of where I live that work within 2 miles of where I work. Batch us into groups by pickup time, dispatch small buses to my neighborhood to pick us up, sending texts to give estimates of arrival, drive us to drop off spots. Make the bus climate controlled and with power adapters and WiFi so we can work or play or read while this is happening. I'd take that now.
- mullingitover 13y agoIt's already here! Just get yourself hired at Google.
- bfung 13y agoI would argue that prices don't really keep them off the bus. Originally from Chicago with a pay-per-ride system and moved here to San Francisco to a (weak)proof-of-payment system, sure it's faster but far more people take the risk of not paying in the proof-of-payment system (even those who can afford it). Pay-per-ride keeps them off the bus, but as the article pointed out, the latency of the bus stopping until the bus moving is much higher and unacceptable in larger suburban areas. Proof-of-payment does not keep anyone off the bus. Especially the "foul-smelling derelicts". 1) they game it by getting on and then getting off before the proof needs to be presented and 2) if they're caught, the fines are too steep for them to afford anyways. A night in jail may cost the city as much as the fine that would've been issued. Free public transportation has a lot of benefits, but the elephant in the room is "Who is going to pay for it?". In cities that have a lot of tourists, the residents may complain and prices at businesses may be higher due to passed down costs to consumers. On the other hand, I pay for a monthly pass on a recurring schedule, it might as well be the same as tax, as it would make no difference coming out of my wallet anyways.