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That would increase the traffic on these buses by some multiples and will increase wait times, frustration and overall dissatisfaction among the public. Then so

by yalogin 13y ago

That would increase the traffic on these buses by some multiples and will increase wait times, frustration and overall dissatisfaction among the public. Then some one will do some napkin math saying the amount of "money" wasted by all these people waiting is not worth the free rides. I guess my point is, free rides probably would have made sense in 1965 when the population was a fraction of what it is in NYC today. Add all the tourists to that and free rides are not sustainable.

VLM 13y ago
Wouldn't that demand logically result in an explosion in the amount of "free bus supply" resulting in an implosion in the amount of traffic congestion frustration and delay? Heck I'd pay money for a bus I don't use just to drive home faster.
- draugadrotten 13y ago
  > Heck I'd pay money for a bus I don't use just to drive home faster. I think there is a bigger business opportunity in this simple line than it first appears. Perhaps the bus company's customer isn't the person riding the bus.
frenchy 13y ago
You would have to increase the number of buses and their frequency on the routes. The consequence of this is that there will be fewer cars (and maybe bikes) on the roads, which mean that buses can go faster, which means you don't need to add quite so many. Probably the net result would be to increase the number of buses, decrease the overall traffic, and increase everyone's mobility. It may increase the number of tourists (could be good or bad), and will probably cost everyone a little more than expected.
- VLM 13y ago
  "will probably cost everyone a little more than expected." A little less on a large enough system wide scale. Hard to find a cheaper way to move people around, quickly, on land, in any weather, than a properly applied bus. Tourists in taxis is definitely not cheaper and rentals are even worse. I admit trains/subways are cheaper if the utilization level is high enough, but it has to be Really high. If "your" subway stop has 50,000 potential riders that'll work. But where I live a subway stop by my house would have about 50 potential riders, which is a bit of a financial problem.
- danielweber 13y ago
  That might happen. However, changes to systems which require "let us change a lot of things, and afterwards, things might even be better!" tend to go nowhere. I'd love for people to work on making bus riding more convenient for people right now. The fares aren't really the problem. It's the bus going where I need it go in a comfortable fashion.
Gravityloss 13y ago
And how would these people travel otherwise? If it's by car, then free buses would actually reduce congestion and decrease bus travel times.
mfringel 13y ago
The population of NYC wasn't appreciably less in 1965 than it is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#Historical_Population_data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#H... 8.1MM in 2010, compared with ~7.8MM between 1960-1970
nijk 13y ago
This is exactly the argument that ended Seattle's free ride program last year.
akgerber 13y ago
You can always make the buses free with an NYC ID, and require tourists to buy a pass to use them.
danielweber 13y ago
It's quite easy to get more buses, or only run buses at certain hours of the day. They are extremely flexible. My comments on this page might make me seem anti-bus, but I'm more anti-bus-proponent. Buses are probably better than trains because they are so much easier to rearrange.

by yalogin 13y ago

VLM 13y ago

Wouldn't that demand logically result in an explosion in the amount of "free bus supply" resulting in an implosion in the amount of traffic congestion frustration and delay? Heck I'd pay money for a bus I don't use just to drive home faster.

draugadrotten 13y ago
> Heck I'd pay money for a bus I don't use just to drive home faster. I think there is a bigger business opportunity in this simple line than it first appears. Perhaps the bus company's customer isn't the person riding the bus.

frenchy 13y ago

You would have to increase the number of buses and their frequency on the routes. The consequence of this is that there will be fewer cars (and maybe bikes) on the roads, which mean that buses can go faster, which means you don't need to add quite so many. Probably the net result would be to increase the number of buses, decrease the overall traffic, and increase everyone's mobility. It may increase the number of tourists (could be good or bad), and will probably cost everyone a little more than expected.

VLM 13y ago
"will probably cost everyone a little more than expected." A little less on a large enough system wide scale. Hard to find a cheaper way to move people around, quickly, on land, in any weather, than a properly applied bus. Tourists in taxis is definitely not cheaper and rentals are even worse. I admit trains/subways are cheaper if the utilization level is high enough, but it has to be Really high. If "your" subway stop has 50,000 potential riders that'll work. But where I live a subway stop by my house would have about 50 potential riders, which is a bit of a financial problem.
danielweber 13y ago
That might happen. However, changes to systems which require "let us change a lot of things, and afterwards, things might even be better!" tend to go nowhere. I'd love for people to work on making bus riding more convenient for people right now. The fares aren't really the problem. It's the bus going where I need it go in a comfortable fashion.

Gravityloss 13y ago

And how would these people travel otherwise? If it's by car, then free buses would actually reduce congestion and decrease bus travel times.

mfringel 13y ago

The population of NYC wasn't appreciably less in 1965 than it is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#Historical_Population_data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#H... 8.1MM in 2010, compared with ~7.8MM between 1960-1970

nijk 13y ago

This is exactly the argument that ended Seattle's free ride program last year.

akgerber 13y ago

You can always make the buses free with an NYC ID, and require tourists to buy a pass to use them.

danielweber 13y ago

It's quite easy to get more buses, or only run buses at certain hours of the day. They are extremely flexible. My comments on this page might make me seem anti-bus, but I'm more anti-bus-proponent. Buses are probably better than trains because they are so much easier to rearrange.