5 ms·

So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better? Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? Where is the medium here, and how

by jneal 17y ago

So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better? Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? Where is the medium here, and how is such a thing even remotely close to a reason why Windows 7 is not the answer? You answer this dialog once after you first install, and you never see it again if you use recommended settings. So what's so confusing about that?

timtrueman 17y ago
Don't make me think.
lisper 17y ago
> So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better? We? Do you work for Microsoft? > Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? That depends on what kind of decision is being made. Whenever you offer a choice it needs to be clear what tradeoff is being made. Why would anyone not want the recommended option? A better dialog would read something like this? Do you want Windows to automatically download driver software for your devices? This works most of the time, but can cause problems with a few less popular devices. __ Yes (recommended) __ No, I don't trust you idiots at Microsoft. I want to manage my drivers manually. Do you want Windows to download realistic icons for your devices? Realistic icons look better, but use more disk space and RAM, and can have a negative impact on performance. __ Yes, I'm all about the eye candy. __ No, I have the need for speed.
dandelany 17y ago
> Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? No. You make decisions for your users and then offer them options. Under "Options." Or "Control Panel," as you so bizarrely insist on calling it. Oh, and you realize that for 90% of your users, "driver software" == Mario Kart.
mynameishere 17y ago
Make a non-idiot mode. When non-idiot mode is activated the following occurs: #1 All folders show "name" "extension" "size" "date created" "date modified" and nothing else. All alterations made by the user are automatically filtered into the entire filesystem. Don't ever "guess" what a directory is for. Computers are shit at guessing things. #2 When I try to change a .png extension to .jpg I don't want alerted that this will "make the file unusable". That is an insult to my intelligence. #3 When I try to delete a file that another process has a lock on you TELL ME WHAT GODDAMNED PROCESS HAS A LOCK ON IT so I can kill it. #4 The GUI should look like windows 2000, no fussing with silly transparent windows or Mac wanna-be bullshit. I avoid macs for the same reason I avoid the Candyland. #5 All files are assumed to be text files unless otherwise associated with other applications. That is, if I click on phat.properties, load it into whatever phat.txt would have been loaded into, most likely notepad. #6 I use notepad more than almost any other application. It's time to start giving it more features. I'll bet there are 100 hackers at microsoft who would love to make notepad into a new emacs. #7 Port every popular unix utility (grep, locate, sed, whatever) to windows and let me run them from the command prompt. #8 Switch backslashes to forward slashes. #9 Bring back qbasic gorilla.
- snprbob86 17y ago
  I detest the idea of a "non-idiot mode" or "expert mode". Software doesn't need to be complicated to be powerful. #1 Google Docs has a fantastic organizational tool which is much better suited to the task than a traditional file system. #2 Why are we messing with file names anyway? Flickr doesn't force me to think about this problem. #3 Why can't I unlink a file instead of deleting it? Why should I have to kill a process? #4 shrug Beautiful is welcome if you don't suck down my resources too badly. #5 Again, normal users are forced to interact with file systems far too often. #6 If you like Emacs so much, why don't you just use Emacs? #7 PowerShell comes with Windows 7... or you can install Cygwin. #8 shrug both technically already work nearly everywhere. You are proposing "solutions" to common problems you have had. Your solutions have a remedy nature to them. You exhibit the traditional Microsoft band-aid mentality. Microsoft's culture is designed around managing complexity. We're damn good at coming up with complex solutions to complex problems. We are very weak at deriving simple solutions to complex problems. However, more importantly, we are very weak at identifying important problems to solve, and hence simplifying the needs for solutions. It seems to me like you would fit right in here. That is not necessarily a good thing.
  - mynameishere 17y ago
    If you like Emacs so much, why don't you just use Emacs? Not the point. Microsoft has had a blank-slate opportunity with things like calc and notepad but has squandered them. Why not make calc the world's best calculator? Why not make notepad the best text editor? Instead, those apps are just like the 1998 versions, while they've diddled with the meaningless start menu and control panel for probably 200 million dollars in man hours.
    - dcurtis 17y ago
      Microsoft is not capable of making the world's best calculator or the world's best notepad. That's the real problem.
      - brown 17y ago
kingsley_20 17y ago
the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution in the form of a design process, when what you really need is an organizational/political fix. You have wicked smart UI people (http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/ http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/). you just need to let them do their jobs.
whacked_new 17y ago
There are some people whose definition of "good" is "Apple." You can never win on this turf: anything that isn't Apple, is bad; anything that is like Apple, is a copycat. The people who have more useful information are probably those that hop on OSes all the time and spend a majority of their time in pre-7 windows flavors. I never played with W7, but I would probably be annoyed by that dialog box if I see it in a normal situation. Right now I can see two attacks to this problem. First, for the config-philic person, allow them to choose during OS install whether they would like to be exposed to configs-galore. For those who don't just go with the defaults and allow them to enable configs-galore themselves later. The (cognitive) memory cost here is 1 item: where to find the option to enable configs-galore. Second, pop up these kinds of window depending on how close the action is to the OS install. If it is within a few days, my memory of "fresh OS install" is salient and it would not be surprising for me to see config dialogs pop up here and there. If it was over 2 weeks though, I'm most likely coasting already and would hate to see something disrupt my flow. Other than that, though, that dialog box looks fine to me. I don't find it the least bit confusing. In fact, the choices it gives are quite complete and pleasing as such. /Mac user on a daily basis.

by jneal 17y ago

timtrueman 17y ago

Don't make me think.

lisper 17y ago

> So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better? We? Do you work for Microsoft? > Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? That depends on what kind of decision is being made. Whenever you offer a choice it needs to be clear what tradeoff is being made. Why would anyone not want the recommended option? A better dialog would read something like this? Do you want Windows to automatically download driver software for your devices? This works most of the time, but can cause problems with a few less popular devices. __ Yes (recommended) __ No, I don't trust you idiots at Microsoft. I want to manage my drivers manually. Do you want Windows to download realistic icons for your devices? Realistic icons look better, but use more disk space and RAM, and can have a negative impact on performance. __ Yes, I'm all about the eye candy. __ No, I have the need for speed.

dandelany 17y ago

> Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? No. You make decisions for your users and then offer them options. Under "Options." Or "Control Panel," as you so bizarrely insist on calling it. Oh, and you realize that for 90% of your users, "driver software" == Mario Kart.

mynameishere 17y ago

Make a non-idiot mode. When non-idiot mode is activated the following occurs: #1 All folders show "name" "extension" "size" "date created" "date modified" and nothing else. All alterations made by the user are automatically filtered into the entire filesystem. Don't ever "guess" what a directory is for. Computers are shit at guessing things. #2 When I try to change a .png extension to .jpg I don't want alerted that this will "make the file unusable". That is an insult to my intelligence. #3 When I try to delete a file that another process has a lock on you TELL ME WHAT GODDAMNED PROCESS HAS A LOCK ON IT so I can kill it. #4 The GUI should look like windows 2000, no fussing with silly transparent windows or Mac wanna-be bullshit. I avoid macs for the same reason I avoid the Candyland. #5 All files are assumed to be text files unless otherwise associated with other applications. That is, if I click on phat.properties, load it into whatever phat.txt would have been loaded into, most likely notepad. #6 I use notepad more than almost any other application. It's time to start giving it more features. I'll bet there are 100 hackers at microsoft who would love to make notepad into a new emacs. #7 Port every popular unix utility (grep, locate, sed, whatever) to windows and let me run them from the command prompt. #8 Switch backslashes to forward slashes. #9 Bring back qbasic gorilla.

snprbob86 17y ago
I detest the idea of a "non-idiot mode" or "expert mode". Software doesn't need to be complicated to be powerful. #1 Google Docs has a fantastic organizational tool which is much better suited to the task than a traditional file system. #2 Why are we messing with file names anyway? Flickr doesn't force me to think about this problem. #3 Why can't I unlink a file instead of deleting it? Why should I have to kill a process? #4 shrug Beautiful is welcome if you don't suck down my resources too badly. #5 Again, normal users are forced to interact with file systems far too often. #6 If you like Emacs so much, why don't you just use Emacs? #7 PowerShell comes with Windows 7... or you can install Cygwin. #8 shrug both technically already work nearly everywhere. You are proposing "solutions" to common problems you have had. Your solutions have a remedy nature to them. You exhibit the traditional Microsoft band-aid mentality. Microsoft's culture is designed around managing complexity. We're damn good at coming up with complex solutions to complex problems. We are very weak at deriving simple solutions to complex problems. However, more importantly, we are very weak at identifying important problems to solve, and hence simplifying the needs for solutions. It seems to me like you would fit right in here. That is not necessarily a good thing.
- mynameishere 17y ago
  If you like Emacs so much, why don't you just use Emacs? Not the point. Microsoft has had a blank-slate opportunity with things like calc and notepad but has squandered them. Why not make calc the world's best calculator? Why not make notepad the best text editor? Instead, those apps are just like the 1998 versions, while they've diddled with the meaningless start menu and control panel for probably 200 million dollars in man hours.
  - dcurtis 17y ago
    Microsoft is not capable of making the world's best calculator or the world's best notepad. That's the real problem.
    - brown 17y ago

kingsley_20 17y ago

the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution in the form of a design process, when what you really need is an organizational/political fix. You have wicked smart UI people (http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/ http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/). you just need to let them do their jobs.

whacked_new 17y ago

There are some people whose definition of "good" is "Apple." You can never win on this turf: anything that isn't Apple, is bad; anything that is like Apple, is a copycat. The people who have more useful information are probably those that hop on OSes all the time and spend a majority of their time in pre-7 windows flavors. I never played with W7, but I would probably be annoyed by that dialog box if I see it in a normal situation. Right now I can see two attacks to this problem. First, for the config-philic person, allow them to choose during OS install whether they would like to be exposed to configs-galore. For those who don't just go with the defaults and allow them to enable configs-galore themselves later. The (cognitive) memory cost here is 1 item: where to find the option to enable configs-galore. Second, pop up these kinds of window depending on how close the action is to the OS install. If it is within a few days, my memory of "fresh OS install" is salient and it would not be surprising for me to see config dialogs pop up here and there. If it was over 2 weeks though, I'm most likely coasting already and would hate to see something disrupt my flow. Other than that, though, that dialog box looks fine to me. I don't find it the least bit confusing. In fact, the choices it gives are quite complete and pleasing as such. /Mac user on a daily basis.