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AFAIK the NSA was not informed, the FBI was. They investigated and concluded that there was no firm evidence of intent, case closed. Due process at work in our
by mpyne 13y ago
AFAIK the NSA was not informed, the FBI was. They investigated and concluded that there was no firm evidence of intent, case closed. Due process at work in our police state, strange.
Also, a student with a naturalized American brother who travels to visit family and speak with radical Islamists at his old home is not the kind of thing that either collecting phone call information or using Facebook Open Graph^W^W^W Prism is going to work well against. There are other types of terroristic threats, Prism/phone watch lists will work better against those.
If anything Maj. Nidal Hasan would almost be a better example, except that the NSA system worked perfectly... it was only in the follow-up investigation that it was decided that Hasan was just making innocent probes, so it was the investigation that failed and not the NSA system.
Arguing that monitoring every communication on the planet makes no sense... even with contractor augments there are not enough U.S. citizens to monitor all world communications, and the pool of available analysts quickly drops when you consider security clearance issues, training required, pay available, the qualifications needed, etc.
So no, it doesn't follow that you could perfectly foil terrorist plots even with interception and monitoring of worldwide communications, so the fact that NSA is as successful as they are can't be waved away by saying "anyone could do it". They can't monitor everyone even with their Utah data center, so apparently they've been doing a good job at focusing their resources at the mission at hand.
Any either way there's always a tradeoff. You wouldn't accept a 9/11 in your country every day to ensure absolute privacy as soon there would be no one left to be private from, so let's not act like the priority value is ∞. The staggering success of Twitter, Facebook and Google reveal how much people truly value their privacy.
Even the Constitution is in on the act, as both warrants and "reasonable searches" are explicitly mentioned as limits to Fourth Amendment rights, and people don't seem to freak out about those.
So while people may have different answers about where they fall on privacy <==> security (where a given program has a tradeoff between the two), don't act like the extreme choice is the only one; even the Framers didn't think that.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoYou know what? The fact that a person uses Facebook, Google, etc. is in no way a declaration from that person that they do not value their privacy, especially privacy from the government. The 4th amendment makes participation in those things possible.
- mpyne 13y agoAbsolutely using Facebook and Google is a declaration of that. At least the government is incompetent, by sending that information to Google and Facebook you're leaving yourself up to their good graces (which change with little to no notice which each modification to their privacy policies). That is a person's own choice to make, but they've definitely made it. The 4th Amendment covers the relationship between you and the government. It does not cover the relationship between the government and a third-party, unless Congress passes additional legislation to add that protection. Congress has done so for the mail, for landline telephone, beepers, and cellular telephones. They have not done so in the general case for email or other electronic data hosted by a third-party, and yet email and other electronic services somehow have become incredibly popular.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoA person can revoke Facebook's and Google's access. A person at least gets to read the TOS of fb and Google, we both know that rarely happens, but the possibility exists where it is completely absent in the case of the gov't. >The 4th Amendment covers the relationship between you and the government. Yes, of course it does. And it's because the gov't cannot scan and fish facebook for crimes to solve that people feel comfortable enough to share such information.