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> if people don't vote Fidesz that Jobbik will win - and we all know what fascists they are! Sure, they are born evil people. They would sacrifice their own ch

> if people don't vote Fidesz that Jobbik will win - and we all know what fascists they are! Sure, they are born evil people. They would sacrifice their own children just to kill others - anyone who differs in skin color. Am I right? There were multiple cases of Jobbik supporters rallying in Roma populated cities, for various reasons. Nobody got hurt. Nobody will. How fascist are them then exactly?

Vivtek 13y ago
Jobbik has some good principles. I like the idea of a little pride in Hungary. But the Roma are part of Hungary that you need to have some pride in. You're not Magyars freely riding across the plains any more, if indeed you ever were. The Roma are not your problem, man, no matter how many knife attacks there are - and I know there are. But there aren't as many as you think, and there are plenty of violent attacks in the other direction, like people burning Roma houses down with the Roma still in them. As to your point of Jobbik rallies in Roma cities - yeah, that's true as far as official rallies go. I do quite clearly remember a strongly Jobbik demonstration over near the Tisza last year that was not exactly sunshine and butterflies, though. Hatred does not pay. And if you think the taxes going to support Roma kids are sapping your economic strength - there are a few ethnic Magyarok who stole 100 trillion forint from you thirty years ago and still have it. You could stack every Roma baby in the world end to end and they wouldn't be as tall as that. Those guys are your enemy, and they are Magyar, not Roma. Jobbik is misguided, but I don't think they're fundamentally misguided. Their nationalistic principles show promise, like I say. Somebody has to start keeping the money in-country, and they'd be likely to work on that if they can get their heads out of their asses long enough. Add to that the fact that Jobbik will have to be part of a coalition if they do gain more representation in Parliament (there's no danger whatsoever of a Jobbik supermajority!), and that would temper them a little and let them learn about government, and I think there's hope for the future. Hungary has only been newly independent for twenty years. They've got time to make a few mistakes before everybody has any right to throw up their hands and say they can't be trusted. All that said, yeah - your topmost point about the rhetoric used to paint the Jobbik as a threat is 100% dead on. They're all just Nazis reborn! Look at the laws Hungary is passing! Oh, wait, that's another party? Oh, well, all Hungarians are the same anyway.
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  Thank you for taking the time to write these replies, I appreciate it. I agree on certain points, but I still hold my opinion of that you were tricked by the media which demonized the Jobbik. I personally know multiple politicians who are members of the Jobbik. None of them want to burn Romas. None of them even blame them, they blame the government.
  - Vivtek 13y ago
    I'll give you that, I know a few Jobbik myself and they're exactly as you describe. And I also remember the party official who discovered last year that he himself was ethnically Jewish and was forced out. But fair's fair, I haven't personally been at any such demonstrations - but I'll bet you haven't been at any knife fights, either. As to the media - after 25 years of marriage to a Hungarian, and now a year living in Budapest, my Hungarian still sucks. I can keep up my end of a conversation if I've had enough sleep and I can read text fine, but I usually have to ask my wife what any given news story is about. Most of my exposure to current events consists of her watching the news while I'm finishing up one job or another on the laptop. So I'm not 100% up to speed on detail. The media here honestly seems less slanted than in the States, but that is a really vaguely anecdotal judgement. It would be nice if a study were actually possible, but such is the nature of media that it isn't, really.
    - Vivtek 13y ago
      Also: they may personally believe that Roma are not the problem - but is that the rhetoric they use to sway voters? Even subtly? Because you started out trying to justify the Jobbik by citing knife attacks, and got widely slapped down for using local rhetoric in a global forum - that's a good sign that your local rhetoric is a lot more slanted than you think. And what you say ends up being what you believe.
      - friendly_chap 13y ago
        I don't think I ever mentioned anything about knife fights on this forum. I also use no local rhetoric. I just wrote what I see on the country side. If you think it is a rhetoric to trick voters into voting then I am glad - you must be very far away from the problems these voters experience, and that's fine. You live in Budapest you say. That's an entirely different place then the rest of the country. The amount of poverty and suffering people endure in the country side is almost unimaginable. Unfortunately I can imagine it because I grew up in it. PS: I have been at knife fights unfortunately. That can happen when you want to drink an orange juice in a pub here. PS2: How do you like the Hungarian language? I am a natural language geek. What do you think how does it sound? Any thoughts appreciated.
Vivtek 13y ago
Oh, and also I should note: if you have a party rallying in a city populated by an ethnic minority - that's not evidence of a lack of fascism. The KKK holds rallies in South Chicago from time to time - nobody gets hurt, sure, but that is not done out of a sense of national unity and mutual trusting support.

Vivtek 13y ago

Jobbik has some good principles. I like the idea of a little pride in Hungary. But the Roma are part of Hungary that you need to have some pride in. You're not Magyars freely riding across the plains any more, if indeed you ever were. The Roma are not your problem, man, no matter how many knife attacks there are - and I know there are. But there aren't as many as you think, and there are plenty of violent attacks in the other direction, like people burning Roma houses down with the Roma still in them. As to your point of Jobbik rallies in Roma cities - yeah, that's true as far as official rallies go. I do quite clearly remember a strongly Jobbik demonstration over near the Tisza last year that was not exactly sunshine and butterflies, though. Hatred does not pay. And if you think the taxes going to support Roma kids are sapping your economic strength - there are a few ethnic Magyarok who stole 100 trillion forint from you thirty years ago and still have it. You could stack every Roma baby in the world end to end and they wouldn't be as tall as that. Those guys are your enemy, and they are Magyar, not Roma. Jobbik is misguided, but I don't think they're fundamentally misguided. Their nationalistic principles show promise, like I say. Somebody has to start keeping the money in-country, and they'd be likely to work on that if they can get their heads out of their asses long enough. Add to that the fact that Jobbik will have to be part of a coalition if they do gain more representation in Parliament (there's no danger whatsoever of a Jobbik supermajority!), and that would temper them a little and let them learn about government, and I think there's hope for the future. Hungary has only been newly independent for twenty years. They've got time to make a few mistakes before everybody has any right to throw up their hands and say they can't be trusted. All that said, yeah - your topmost point about the rhetoric used to paint the Jobbik as a threat is 100% dead on. They're all just Nazis reborn! Look at the laws Hungary is passing! Oh, wait, that's another party? Oh, well, all Hungarians are the same anyway.

friendly_chap 13y ago
Thank you for taking the time to write these replies, I appreciate it. I agree on certain points, but I still hold my opinion of that you were tricked by the media which demonized the Jobbik. I personally know multiple politicians who are members of the Jobbik. None of them want to burn Romas. None of them even blame them, they blame the government.
- Vivtek 13y ago
  I'll give you that, I know a few Jobbik myself and they're exactly as you describe. And I also remember the party official who discovered last year that he himself was ethnically Jewish and was forced out. But fair's fair, I haven't personally been at any such demonstrations - but I'll bet you haven't been at any knife fights, either. As to the media - after 25 years of marriage to a Hungarian, and now a year living in Budapest, my Hungarian still sucks. I can keep up my end of a conversation if I've had enough sleep and I can read text fine, but I usually have to ask my wife what any given news story is about. Most of my exposure to current events consists of her watching the news while I'm finishing up one job or another on the laptop. So I'm not 100% up to speed on detail. The media here honestly seems less slanted than in the States, but that is a really vaguely anecdotal judgement. It would be nice if a study were actually possible, but such is the nature of media that it isn't, really.
  - Vivtek 13y ago
    Also: they may personally believe that Roma are not the problem - but is that the rhetoric they use to sway voters? Even subtly? Because you started out trying to justify the Jobbik by citing knife attacks, and got widely slapped down for using local rhetoric in a global forum - that's a good sign that your local rhetoric is a lot more slanted than you think. And what you say ends up being what you believe.
    - friendly_chap 13y ago
      I don't think I ever mentioned anything about knife fights on this forum. I also use no local rhetoric. I just wrote what I see on the country side. If you think it is a rhetoric to trick voters into voting then I am glad - you must be very far away from the problems these voters experience, and that's fine. You live in Budapest you say. That's an entirely different place then the rest of the country. The amount of poverty and suffering people endure in the country side is almost unimaginable. Unfortunately I can imagine it because I grew up in it. PS: I have been at knife fights unfortunately. That can happen when you want to drink an orange juice in a pub here. PS2: How do you like the Hungarian language? I am a natural language geek. What do you think how does it sound? Any thoughts appreciated.

Vivtek 13y ago

Oh, and also I should note: if you have a party rallying in a city populated by an ethnic minority - that's not evidence of a lack of fascism. The KKK holds rallies in South Chicago from time to time - nobody gets hurt, sure, but that is not done out of a sense of national unity and mutual trusting support.